JMS on CompuServe (May 12, 1996) *POSSIBLE SPOILERS* 1/2
Brent Barrett
bbarrett at speedlink.com
Sun May 12 13:39:06 EDT 1996
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WARNING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The following posts may contain SPOILERS for
upcoming Babylon 5 episodes.
Continue at your own risk.
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THE FOLLOWING MATERIAL IS THE COPYRIGHT OF THE
RESPECTIVE MESSAGE AUTHORS AND CANNOT BE
REPRODUCED IN ANY FORM WITHOUT THE EXPRESSED
PERMISSION OF THE AUTHOR.
Note that JMS has expressed his public permission
that all of his messages may be reproduced freely.
I give permission for my summaries to be reposted in
any form, however I reserve all rights to them and
the right to revoke this permission at any time.
[ Summary of subjects in this section: ]
Sb: #503676-#B5 article in paper
Sb: #503741-Interludes question
Sb: #503797-#<Interludes - Name>
Sb: #503665-I&E Support
Sb: #503736-I&E Support
Sb: #503671-#Joe an atheist?
Sb: #503629-#JMS: Arc a Fake?
Sb: #503861-I&E Support
Sb: #503928-Joe an atheist?
Sb: #504024-<Rage's Thots: Teeps>
Sb: #504026-JMS: Arc a Fake?
[ Summary: The poster reports on a fairly good article in her local paper. ]
#: 503871 S5/Babylon 5: General
11-May-96 15:55:31
Sb: #503676-#B5 article in paper
Fm: J. MICHAEL STRACZYNSKI
Thanks, actually it's an AP article that's appeared all over the place.
One can quibble with the details, but it's actually a good piece.
jms
#: 503741 S5/Babylon 5: General
11-May-96 11:12:02
Sb: #Interludes question
Fm: JOHN HARDIN
{ posted on behalf of roseman at hal.com (Marc Roseman) }
Good afternoon,
Could you please post this note to either JMS, or to the moderated info
notesfile? My site can not currently post to moderated notesfiles.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spoiler Space.....
When Kosh was attacked by the shadows, a man with a mask on let the shadows
into Kosh's quarters.
Was that man Morden, or Sinclair? Everyone I have spoken to presumes it was
Morden, however, when I replayed the scene on the tape I made, the face seemed
to have Sinclair's features....
#: 503872 S5/Babylon 5: General
11-May-96 15:55:33
Sb: #503741-Interludes question
Fm: J. MICHAEL STRACZYNSKI
It was Morden. If it were Sinclair, the actor would've been noted in the
credits.
jms
#: 503797 S6/Babylon 5: Upcoming
11-May-96 14:09:45
Sb: #503079-#<Interludes - Name>
Fm: JOHN L. CREIGH
Joe,
Thanks for an excellent episode. The scene with Kosh and Sheridan in the
hall had me disturbed and shaken, something that rarely happens when I watch a
TV show. The effects keep getting better and better and the characters more
interesting.
Having missed many of the early episodes, I have a question about the end of
the scene where Kosh is assulted. There is a brief flash of what looks like a
huge ship entering a portal of some sort. My only guess was that it might be
B4 but I haven't seen Babylon Squared. Can you confirm this?
Thanks, John
#: 503874 S6/Babylon 5: Upcoming
11-May-96 15:55:37
Sb: #503797-#<Interludes - Name>
Fm: J. MICHAEL STRACZYNSKI
No, it's not B4.
jms
[ Summary: Enjoyed "Interludes & Examinations" and asks if we will ever
see the monks again. ]
#: 503875 S6/Babylon 5: Upcoming
11-May-96 15:55:39
Sb: #503665-I&E Support
Fm: J. MICHAEL STRACZYNSKI
Yes, you'll be seeing Brother Theo in the next batch of new eps...and
thanks.
jms
[ Summary: The user jokingly claims that "PTEN wanted [Kosh] off the show
because of so many negative complaints about his acting ability." ]
#: 503876 S6/Babylon 5: Upcoming
11-May-96 15:55:41
Sb: #503736-I&E Support
Fm: J. MICHAEL STRACZYNSKI
Darn, you went and told...now it'll be all OVER the place....
jms
#: 503671 S5/Babylon 5: General
11-May-96 08:46:22
Sb: #503030-#Joe an atheist?
Fm: DANIEL M. UPTON
>>and I don't see why you find "atheism" and "open-mindedness" to be
antonyms.<<
Technically speaking neither the atheist nor the religious believer are "open
minded". The believer accepts the existence of God on faith. There is no
possible experiment (short of dying and seeing what happens) that can confirm
what he believes in any kind of concrete "here's the data repeat the experiment
and you'll get the same results" way. The atheist is also denying the
existence of God on faith since the statement that there is no God anywhere in
the universe is equally impossible to prove (all universal statements are
impossible to prove and therefore inherently unscientific). Since both are
asserting dogmatic beliefs without conclusive evidence to back them up neither
can be called "open minded".
You will notice that in his response Joe referred to his atheism as his "belief
system".
PS - Remember after the episodes about the soul hunter and the one where the
Minbari's belief that their souls were transmigrating to Humans was revealed
how all the rabid atheists jumped down Joe's throat and said that if there was
any room for the objective existence of a "soul" in his story that it stopped
being science fiction and became fantasy and that he would lose them as
viewers?
Dan^^^^
danupton at blueridge.net
#: 503877 S5/Babylon 5: General
11-May-96 16:10:59
Sb: #503671-#Joe an atheist?
Fm: J. MICHAEL STRACZYNSKI
"The atheist is also denying the existence of God on faith since the statement
that there is no God anywhere in the universe is equally impossible to prove
(all universal statements are impossible to prove and therefore inherently
unscientific)."
That's a well phrased analysis of the situation...the only problem with it is
that it ain't so.
By your reasoning, if you say that there are green penguins at the north pole,
and I refuse to believe it until you prove it, then I am a believer in
non-green-penguinism. I am, therefore, a believer in the negative concept of
everything in the universe that has not yet been conclusively proven. At which
point the very notion of belief becomes utterly meaningless.
If someone comes up to you and offers you a job if you move cross country,
wouldn't you want a contract, some proof that the offer is real? Until it's
provided, are you believing in non-contractosity?
Bottom line, Daniel...if you or anyone else makes a statement, the burden of
proof is not on me to *disprove* it, it's on you to *prove* it. Until that
point, the question of belief doesn't enter into it. Is it or is it not
provable? If not, then it isn't recognized as a real thing. Belief is
irrelevant. Once you've shown me my new car, and I've driven in it, it doesn't
require faith or belief to know it exists. For my money, no one has yet proven
the existence of a supreme or minor deity...so for me, it simply doesn't exist.
Again, belief has nothing to do with it.
(I used the phrase belief system only because I didn't want to get into a
prolonged discussion of it, and that seemed the simplest way of stating it.
That'll teach me not to go for the precise terms, even if it means another few
paragraphs of explanation.)
jms
#: 503629 S5/Babylon 5: General
11-May-96 04:12:30
Sb: #503256-#JMS: Arc a Fake?
Fm: LAURENCE MORONEY
Agreed completely.
>>It's a great ride. If it were all figured out in detail in advance, it'd
already be written. Knowing that the author is only a few steps ahead of us is
part of the fun, for me anyway.<<
Me too, I love it. I just get nagging doubts as to whether the extent of the
detailed arc will be what I expect it to be, but I expect an awful lot, which
is probably a little unfair.
Cheers,
Laurence
#: 503878 S5/Babylon 5: General
11-May-96 16:11:01
Sb: #503629-#JMS: Arc a Fake?
Fm: J. MICHAEL STRACZYNSKI
The other thing to bear in mind is that I can't really be responsible for
what expectations you bring to it, since I can't see inside your head. (Or if I
could I wouldn't tell you...and stop that, you'll go blind.) All I can do is
tell the story that's in my head.
jms
#: 503861 S6/Babylon 5: Upcoming
11-May-96 15:45:48
Sb: #503546-#I&E Support
Fm: ELYSE M. GRASSO
Joe --
I just saw the episode a couple of hours ago. Not completely unspoiled,
unfortunately: I see the show too late in the week and spend too much online.
(May have given the Londo thread more impact, since I was partly braced for the
other...)
When it was over and I was breathing again, I wondered, was this the death
where the actor asked "why me?" or the death where the character insisted, "Now
me!"
Elyse
#: 503879 S6/Babylon 5: Upcoming
11-May-96 16:11:02
Sb: #503861-I&E Support
Fm: J. MICHAEL STRACZYNSKI
This was the "now me" episode. The "why me?" episode is yet to come.
jms
#: 503928 S5/Babylon 5: General
11-May-96 18:00:16
Sb: #503877-#Joe an atheist?
Fm: DANIEL M. UPTON
>>Bottom line, Daniel...if you or anyone else makes a statement, the burden of
proof is not on me to *disprove* it, it's on you to *prove* it. Until that
point, the question of belief doesn't enter into it. Is it or is it not
provable? If not, then it isn't recognized as a real thing. Belief is
irrelevant. Once you've shown me my new car, and I've driven in it, it doesn't
require faith or belief to know it exists. For my money, no one has yet proven
the existence of a supreme or minor deity...so for me, it simply doesn't exist.
Again, belief has nothing to do with it.<<
I don't want to get into a discussion on the existence of God since it would
likely be fruitless. However a blanket statement that something does not exist
is, from a scientific standpoint, meaningless. The way you phrase your reply
"For my money...so for me, it simply doesn't exist." is entirely subjective and
therefore resides in the realm of faith and belief. I suspect that the
emotionally charged nature of any discussion of religion is coloring your
judgment. Substitute the concept of life on other planets for belief in God in
your argument and see if you would feel as comfortable making a flat dogmatic
assertion that nowhere in the entire universe, save for earth, is there any
life whatsoever.
On another matter, are scripts from already produced episodes of B5 available
commercially from any source?
Dan^^^^
danupton at blueridge.net
#: 504059 S5/Babylon 5: General
11-May-96 22:28:00
Sb: #503928-Joe an atheist?
Fm: J. MICHAEL STRACZYNSKI
Daniel, you're on a slippery slide into sophistry. Of *course* one can
make a blanket statement about some things. Many things, in fact. I can
declare, in no uncertain terms, that there are in fact no Minbari. They are a
fictional creation. So right off the bat that negates your thesis.
And, again, you miss the point...the statement is not "X does not exist,"
that's the usual argument brought out to try and make someone prove a negative,
which is nearly impossible. I repeat: the burden of proof is NOT on the person
saying "show me," the burden of proof is on the person making the assertion.
You say there's a god. Show me objective, scientifically verifiable,
quantifiable, repicable evidence of same. Otherwise, I can say that there is
no evidence in it, therefore I don't believe it.
jms
#: 504024 S5/Babylon 5: General
11-May-96 20:50:04
Sb: #503018-#<Rage's Thots: Teeps>
Fm: JOHN M. KAHANE
Hullo, Joe,
< No, it means that the person has to be in their line of sight; they don't
have to look into the person's eyes or anything as silly as that. It doesn't
matter if the person's head or body are covered, as long as there's a definite
"focus" for them. >
That raises an interesting question about "Gethsemane" then... The
Centauri telepath who affected Brother Edward had to be a powerful psi in his
own right (we don't really know whether the aliens have Psi abilities measured
with a Psi rating similar to that of Psi Corps), and yet Lyta was able to get
the information about Edward's location out of his head. That implies to me
that she's not the P-5 we've all been led to think she is, especially in light
of her having interned with the Psi Cops (as per "Divided Loyalties"). Now one
could attribute this change in Lyta's abilities due to the Vorlons (since she
has undergone some changes), but are we going to find out more about this and
Lyta's abilities later this season?
jmk
#: 504060 S5/Babylon 5: General
11-May-96 22:28:02
Sb: #504024-<Rage's Thots: Teeps>
Fm: J. MICHAEL STRACZYNSKI
It's fair to say that Lyta has been...aided, slightly, in her abilities.
But I'm not ready to pull the trigger on that one for a while yet.
jms
#: 504026 S5/Babylon 5: General
11-May-96 20:53:46
Sb: #503878-#JMS: Arc a Fake?
Fm: REBECCA ESCHLIMAN
<< The other thing to bear in mind is that I can't really be responsible
for what expectations you bring to it, since I can't see inside your head. >>
Don't we have here a really good example of the Heisenberg Uncertainty
Principle shifted from the laboratory to the storytelling platform? There is
the story as you see it and show it, yet there is the wiggle of how each of us
interpret it: some through a lens of techno-military, some through a lens of
myth/literary, some through a lens of economics/politics, others through some
mishmash of all of the above or none of the above. Are you ever astonished at
the interpretations applied like a varnish over the story as you see it?
- rje -
...but then there was a star danced, and under that was I born.
#: 504061 S5/Babylon 5: General
11-May-96 22:28:03
Sb: #504026-JMS: Arc a Fake?
Fm: J. MICHAEL STRACZYNSKI
Yes, I'm often intrigued -- don't know if I'd say astonished -- at how
the story is sometimes interpreted. But that's the interactive part of the
process, what the viewer takes away is sometimes only indirectly the result of
what's actually *there*. Take modern art for a moment. You show me a white
canvas broken only by a single red dot in the lower left hand corner, I see a
single red dot in the lower left hand corner of a white canvas, nod and walk
away...somebody else takes a look at it, and sees a telling commentary on
isolationism and the Communist scare of the 50s and man's basic inhumanity to
man.
Anything that passes for art reflects the work's creator, and the viewer;
it's a mirror that works in two directions, and neither reflection holds the
totality of the work individually. Art happens in the moments in-between.
jm(could I possibly sound more effete?)s
[ Continued in next section -- BB ]
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