ATTN JMS: Opinion on Bush's Win?

B5JMS Poster b5jms-owner at
Fri Nov 10 06:09:46 EST 2000

From: "Mac Breck" <macbreck at>
Date: 9 Nov 2000 21:38:28 -0700
Lines: 98

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joshua P. Hill" <joshhill at>
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: ATTN JMS: Opinion on Bush's Win?

> On 9 Nov 2000 11:41:55 -0700, "Mac Breck" <macbreck at>
> wrote:
> >"Mark Private" <ostensiblyme at> wrote in message
> >news:3a0a7738.1083914 at
> >> On 8 Nov 2000 21:41:48 -0700, jmsatb5 at (Jms at B5) wrote:
> >>
> >> [major snippage]
> >>
> >> >
> >> >While the nation waited, Democrats raised concerns about
> >in
> >> >several Florida counties. Democratic Party lawyers said ballots in
> >Beach
> >> >County were illegally configured, causing some voters to be confused
> >their
> >> >choices.
> >>
> >> [more snippage]
> >>
> >> >One controversy involves an oddly drawn ballot that confused some
> >and
> >> >may have caused them to vote for Pat Buchanan instead of Al Gore, the
> >Fort
> >> >Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel reported in its Wednesday's editions.
> >>
> >> Can someone please tell me what is illegal, confusing and/or odd
> >> about:
> >>
> >>
> >
> >What?  Aren't the arrows bold enough?
> >
> >Mac
> That's not the problem. Many people assumed that if the second name
> down was Gore, the second hole down was for Gore. They apparently
> interpreted the arrows as "go over to the right" rather than you have
> to punch the third hole.

And the key word is "assumed."

> Dumb and careless? Maybe, but that hardly matters. The ballot was set
> up in such a way that "dumb and careless" Gore supporters lost their
> vote while "dumb and careless" Bush supporters didn't.

So ballots clearly should not favor one dumb and careless group over
another.  Why did nobody catch this when approving the ballots.  Somebody
fell down on the job.

> Anyway, ballots
> aren't supposed to be an IQ test, and this one didn't follow Florida
> law, which was written to prevent just such a misunderstanding.

So what do they do now?  Florida can't hold another vote.  The people of
Florida would now have knowledge that they didn't have before.  That would
artificially influence the turnout numbers.  Without changing the ballot,
who's to say some people still won't make the mistake?

> It seems to me that if you believe that the outcome should represent
> the will of the voters the outcome here is clearly wrong.

What, and ignore the rules that we've followed in the past, just to get Gore

>  And I find
> 19,000 ballots marked for *both* Bush and Gore fairly chilling.  That
> sounds like out-and-out-fraud to me. There's no evidence that it was
> committed by one side or the other, but it calls the results even
> further into question.

No, it was Gore and Buchanon.

However, this same county has done this in the past, and the votes were not
counted then either.  Why start now?  Just to get Gore elected.  When do you
break the rules, and when don't you?

I say the 19000 votes should be thrown out, just like they've always done in
the past, the recount is done, and the absentee ballots are counted.
Whatever the outcome of that final count, is the way things should go.
Then, we move on.


From: jmsatb5 at (Jms at B5)
Date: 10 Nov 2000 00:09:46 -0700
Lines: 33

>So what do they do now?  Florida can't hold another vote.

Yes, they can.

>The people of
>Florida would now have knowledge that they didn't have before.

What knowledge is that?  Weren't you the guy arguing for an informed

>That would
>artificially influence the turnout numbers.

No, when an election is overturned like this, only those who originally voted
are allowed to vote again.

>  Without changing the ballot,
>who's to say some people still won't make the mistake?

Mistakes aren't the issue.  Corruption and voter fraud are the issue. 
Different things.


(jmsatb5 at
(all message content (c) 2000 by
synthetic worlds, ltd., permission
to reprint specifically denied to
SFX Magazine)

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