[B5JMS] Gore's speech re civil liberty

[b5jms at cs.columbia.edu]

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: Derek Balling <dredd at megacity.org>
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 14:20:52 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 49

    [ The following text is in the "ISO-8859-1" character set. ]

    [ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set.  ]

    [ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]

In article <vs9bs4ibuke075 at corp.supernews.com>, The Ruzicka Family
<ruzicka at pcisys.net> wrote:

> "Derek Balling" <dredd at megacity.org> wrote in message
> news:251120030825241633%dredd at megacity.org...
> >     [ The following text is in the "ISO-8859-1" character set. ]
> >
> >     [ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set.  ]
> >
> >     [ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
> >
> > In article <20031125043317.16326.00000645 at mb-m23.aol.com>, Jms at B5
> > <jmsatb5 at aol.com> wrote:
> > > None.  But we're now in the grips of the pre-emptive administration, and
> guns
> > > *have* been used to mow down whole schools,
> >
> > *whole schools*?
> 
> Well, I can not speak for all instances, but I CAN definitely say that for
> the Columbine shootings, while Harris and Kliebold did not kill or injure
> "everyone," their intent was to kill and injure as many as they could.
> Hell, they even had bombs (bad ones) placed to try to blow up the entire
> school!  Now granted, bombs are not guns, but it DOES show that their intent
> was to kill everyone if they could.  If they could have done it with guns,
> they would have.  Just because no one has YET killed or injured "everyone"
> at a school with guns, does not mean that they haven't wanted to or tried.

But that's not at all what JMS said... he said, quite clearly, that it
*has* happened (his emphasis, not mine).  In fact, he even used the
plural, to indicate that not only has this happened, but it has
happened (n>=2) times!

I'm noticing there wasn't a reply with a citation, so I'm going to have
to assume there isn't one, and it was just (as I noted) sensationalist
nonsense designed to evoke a emotional response instead of a rational
one, which is pretty much one of the signs of a very weak debating
position.

Cheers,
D



=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: jmsatb5 at aol.com (Jms at B5)
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 06:18:16 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 55

><jmsatb5 at aol.com> wrote:
>> > > None.  But we're now in the grips of the pre-emptive administration,
>and
>> guns
>> > > *have* been used to mow down whole schools,
>> >
>> > *whole schools*?
>> 
>> Well, I can not speak for all instances, but I CAN definitely say that for
>> the Columbine shootings, while Harris and Kliebold did not kill or injure
>> "everyone," their intent was to kill and injure as many as they could.
>> Hell, they even had bombs (bad ones) placed to try to blow up the entire
>> school!  Now granted, bombs are not guns, but it DOES show that their
>intent
>> was to kill everyone if they could.  If they could have done it with guns,
>> they would have.  Just because no one has YET killed or injured "everyone"
>> at a school with guns, does not mean that they haven't wanted to or tried.
>
>But that's not at all what JMS said... he said, quite clearly, that it
>*has* happened (his emphasis, not mine).  In fact, he even used the
>plural, to indicate that not only has this happened, but it has
>happened (n>=2) times!
>
>I'm noticing there wasn't a reply with a citation, so I'm going to have
>to assume there isn't one, and it was just (as I noted) sensationalist
>nonsense designed to evoke a emotional response instead of a rational
>one, which is pretty much one of the signs of a very weak debating
>position.

You know, there comes a point where the debate enters the range of
hair-splitting, and this is one of them.  

Yes, Columbine is one example of what I was thinking of.  Was every single
student "mowed down," was every student murdered where he or she sat?  No.  But
to therefore take that one word -- whole -- and totally dismiss the argument is
the worst kind of pettifogging.  Was every student at Columbine murdered?  Of
course not.  But they shot their way down school corridors, through multiple
rooms, the library, the cafeteria, killing everyone they saw, and then blowing
up a section of the library...you may not thing that constitutes "mowing down"
the school, but I'd suggest you try that logic with the parents of the kids who
died that day.  I think they would disagree with you.

Strongly.

 jms

(jmsatb5 at aol.com)
(all message content (c) 2003 by synthetic worlds, ltd., 
permission to reprint specifically denied to SFX Magazine 
and don't send me story ideas)