[B5JMS] ATTN JMS: Is the TMoS script covered by option? (Re: additional from jms)

Sun Feb 27 06:20:55 EST 2005

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From: "Gropo" <verb1 at mindspring.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:41:45 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 19

Fearless leader,

On January 30, in an email titled
"Quickie from JMS" you posted this concerning TMoS:

"I'd say that the next two weeks are going to be critical for the
future of
TMoS. There have been a variety of conversations about a variety of
things and
people, and some offers are starting to go out to various
individuals...so we
shall see what we shall see."

We out in the hinterlands haven't seen or heard anything, even though 3
weeks have passed. Can you say if things go well or not?

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From: jmsatb5 at aol.com
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 00:10:37 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 80

I'm putting this here because the new message threader I sent eaerlier
is taking a while to move through the system.  So this info will repeat
soonish on another subject.

jms

-----------------------------------------------

The rule of thumb in Hollywood is that for every thousand scripts that
get written, only a few dozen get into development, and out of those,
only one will ever get made...if that.

A little over a year ago, I was approached by a company that wanted to
make a Babylon 5 movie.  They optioned the rights, and commissioned a
script.  (It's worth mentioning that I, not WB, own the rights to a B5
movie.  When we were negotiating the original B5 deal -- by whose terms
I will never see a dime in profit -- the one thing they did let me have
were the movie rights, figuring they'd never be worth anything in the
long run.)

Anyway...on December 27th of 2003, the script for "The Memory of
Shadows" was turned in, and the process began of trying to make the
deal work with all the various forces involved.  It is, to say the
least, a very difficult process on any movie where the studio does not
directly take the financial reins.  In terms of B5, Warner's position
was esssentially, "We only do big-budget movies with big names, so
you're on your own."  If there were big-name movie actors in the film,
they'd get behind it; without that, things become very problematic,
especially as far as the financing was concerned.  You much have to put
together a consortium of international interests and business plans
rivaled in complexity only by the Allied invasion of Normandy Beach.

Nonetheless, every attempt was made by the people involved to get this
deal in place.  This was not being done by Doug or myself, but rather
by the company/individuals who approached us and optioned the rights.
At times, it seemed we were inches away from a deal...stages were
reserved at Elstree, actors were contacted, a director was in place,
the script went through many revisions, a few key staff were hired,
again not by me...it was really a year-long roller coaster ride.
During that time, the people involved, with every good intention, tried
very hard to pull the necessary pieces together on the deal.  The
option expired in late December 2004, but I renewed it without cost, to
give those involved more time to try and make things work.

In the end, however, the deal could not be put together, and it did not
look as if that was going to change at any point in the foreseeable
future.  So the option has reverted, and to all intents and purposes,
the project has dead ended.  Nor do I think this particular incarnation
will arise again at any point in the future, though prognostication has
always been a tricky art, especially if you have to do it without the
benefit of hindsight.

This was not the first time someone's taken a run at a B5 feature film,
and it will not be the last.  Eventually it will happen, because such
things are simply inevitable.  If they can do a Brady Bunch movie, you
can be sure that sooner or later, somebody's going to do a B5 movie.
The only thing I can say without equivocation is that when that day
comes, as the rights-holder, I will make darned sure that it's done
right, because I'd rather have no B5 movie than one that doesn't live
up to what fans and I myself would want to see.

To that end...I can wait.

Anyway, just thought you should know the story.

jms

copyright (c) 2005 by
Synthetic Worlds, Ltd.
Reprint permission specifically
denied to SFX Magazine

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From: Jan <janmschroeder at aol.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 01:44:44 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 22

In article <1109376591.780733.126530 at l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
jmsatb5 at aol.com says...

>  Nor do I think this particular incarnation
>will arise again at any point in the future, though prognostication has
>always been a tricky art, especially if you have to do it without the
>benefit of hindsight.
>

JMS,

Can you expand on this a little?  Does 'this particular incarnation' mean that
this story (or script), "The Memory of Shadows" isn't likely to ever be used?  I
really hope that's not what you meant...

Jan 

-- 
Richard Biggs Memorial Show - A day with his friends - Saturday, March 19, 2005.
For more info:  http://www.richardbiggs.com/

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From: Gunnar René Øie <gunnarre at stud.ntnu.no>
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 15:10:48 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 15

Jan wrote:

> Can you expand on this a little?  Does 'this particular incarnation' mean
> that
> this story (or script), "The Memory of Shadows" isn't likely to ever be
> used?  I really hope that's not what you meant...

I sure hope the movie rights and the script are covered by the same option.
It would be so sad if the option for the movie rights has expired, while
the option for the script hasn't. (Meaning that the script has to be bought
or an all new story has to be written...)

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From: Amy Guskin <aisling at fjordstone.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 16:51:14 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 42

>>On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:10:48 -0500, Gunnar Ren=E9 =D8ie wrote
(in article <cvq3cf$vp5$1 at orkan.itea.ntnu.no>):

> Jan wrote:
>=20
>> Can you expand on this a little?  Does 'this particular incarnation' m=
ean
>> that
>> this story (or script), "The Memory of Shadows" isn't likely to ever b=
e
>> used?  I really hope that's not what you meant...
>=20
> I sure hope the movie rights and the script are covered by the same opt=
ion.
> It would be so sad if the option for the movie rights has expired, whil=
e
> the option for the script hasn't. (Meaning that the script has to be bo=
ught
> or an all new story has to be written...)<<

I think it would have to be the script.  We already know from his post th=
at=20
JMS owns the film rights to B5, and that they expired in December and he=20
extended them a bit, treading water to try to make the project work.  Tha=
t=20
extension was likely only for a very short term.

I'm sure that the script was part and parcel of the movie option.  And in=
 any=20
case, I think that by WGA rules it would _have_ to revert to him if the f=
ilm=20
is not made within a certain, contracted period of time.  And JMS is too=20
smart to sign something that would let the script languish in the hands o=
f a=20
studio for very long (if at all) if the film isn't being made.

Amy

--=20
http://www.zongoftheweek.com
Free and legal downloads of fun, original songs

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From: Methuselah Jones <methuselah at altgeek.org>
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 18:12:04 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 36

Carved in mystic runes upon the very living rock, the last words of Amy
Guskin of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain: 

>>>On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:10:48 -0500, Gunnar René Øie wrote
> (in article <cvq3cf$vp5$1 at orkan.itea.ntnu.no>):
> 
>> Jan wrote:
>> 
>>> Can you expand on this a little?  Does 'this particular incarnation'
>>> mean that
>>> this story (or script), "The Memory of Shadows" isn't likely to ever
>>> be used?  I really hope that's not what you meant...
>> 
>> I sure hope the movie rights and the script are covered by the same
>> option. It would be so sad if the option for the movie rights has
>> expired, while the option for the script hasn't. (Meaning that the
>> script has to be bought or an all new story has to be written...)<<
> 
> I think it would have to be the script.  We already know from his post
> that JMS owns the film rights to B5, and that they expired in December

That is, the other studio's option on them expired.

> I'm sure that the script was part and parcel of the movie option.

That would make sense. A script that you have no right to produce would 
be worthless; there would be no reason for the studio to hold onto it.

Although, if they paid to have the script written, they might want to try 
to get some of that money back from it.

-- 
Methuselah
"Beauty is skin deep. But how rich you are can last a long time."
  -- Christine, age 9

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From: Amy Guskin <aisling at fjordstone.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 18:20:02 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 52

>>On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 13:12:04 -0500, Methuselah Jones wrote
(in article <Xns96098640B97E8methuselahaltgeekorg at 216.196.97.131>):

> Carved in mystic runes upon the very living rock, the last words of Amy
> Guskin of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:=20
>=20
>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:10:48 -0500, Gunnar Ren=E9 =D8ie wrote
>> (in article <cvq3cf$vp5$1 at orkan.itea.ntnu.no>):
>>=20
>>> Jan wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> Can you expand on this a little?  Does 'this particular incarnation'
>>>> mean that
>>>> this story (or script), "The Memory of Shadows" isn't likely to ever
>>>> be used?  I really hope that's not what you meant...
>>>=20
>>> I sure hope the movie rights and the script are covered by the same
>>> option. It would be so sad if the option for the movie rights has
>>> expired, while the option for the script hasn't. (Meaning that the
>>> script has to be bought or an all new story has to be written...)<<
>>=20
>> I think it would have to be the script.  We already know from his post
>> that JMS owns the film rights to B5, and that they expired in December
>=20
> That is, the other studio's option on them expired.<<

Yeah, thanks, that was badly worded on my part, but that's what I meant: =
the=20
production company's option on JMS's property expired.

>>> I'm sure that the script was part and parcel of the movie option.
>=20
> That would make sense. A script that you have no right to produce would=
=20
> be worthless; there would be no reason for the studio to hold onto it.
>=20
> Although, if they paid to have the script written, they might want to t=
ry=20
> to get some of that money back from it. <<

Well, that work has been _done_ - the script was written - so it's money=20
already spent.  If I code a website for a company and it fails, I don't h=
ave=20
to pay them back for the work I did.  I'm not responsible for their bad=20
business practices.

Amy

--=20
http://www.zongoftheweek.com
Free and legal downloads of fun, original songs

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From: Methuselah Jones <methuselah at altgeek.org>
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 02:33:21 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 32

Carved in mystic runes upon the very living rock, the last words of Amy
Guskin of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain: 

>>>On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 13:12:04 -0500, Methuselah Jones wrote
> (in article <Xns96098640B97E8methuselahaltgeekorg at 216.196.97.131>):
> 
>> Carved in mystic runes upon the very living rock, the last words of
>> Amy Guskin of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain: 
>>
>>> I'm sure that the script was part and parcel of the movie option.
>> 
>> That would make sense. A script that you have no right to produce
>> would be worthless; there would be no reason for the studio to hold
>> onto it. 
>> 
>> Although, if they paid to have the script written, they might want to
>> try to get some of that money back from it. <<
> 
> Well, that work has been _done_ - the script was written - so it's
> money already spent.  If I code a website for a company and it fails,
> I don't have to pay them back for the work I did.  I'm not responsible
> for their bad business practices.

I know, but if they paid for the script to be done, and they retain the 
rights to it, they could try to sell it to someone else if they wanted to 
try to produce it.

-- 
Methuselah
"First things first, but not necessarily in that order."
  -- Doctor Who

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From: Jeffrey O. Gustafson <PsicopJeffG at hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 05:51:14 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 21

>I know, but if they paid for the script to be done, and they retain the 
>rights to it, they could try to sell it to someone else if they wanted to 
>try to produce it.

The only way they could have "kept" it was if they started production by, as
JMS said, December, and then again by some un-specified extension period.
They didn't, so it reverted back to Joe.  Read his scriptwriting book:
Hollywood is littered with unused or expired options - production company A
options the rights to book B for six figures for, say, two years.  They pay
the author the money, pay him again for a draft, stick the script in a drawer
and do nothing (politics, change in executives, funding fell through,
whatever).  Two years pass,original option expires,  book B is then optioned
by company C, process starts over.  It's entirely possible for a writer to
have a steady lifetime income entirely from unused options on a single story,
in theory.

       -The Jeff

Sheridan:"So how did you find out all of this?"
Bester:"I'm a telepath.  Work it out." <*>

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From: jmsatb5 at aol.com
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 07:43:03 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 31

>I know, but if they paid for the script to be done, and they retain
the
>rights to it, they could try to sell it to someone else if they wanted
to
>try to produce it.

: The only way they could have "kept" it was if they started production
by, as
: JMS said, December, and then again by some un-specified extension
period.
: They didn't, so it reverted back to Joe.

Not correct.  The script cannot be sold by the other party without the
option.  In contrast, while I have the option again, the script (as the
basis of a film) is owned by the other party and if I were to try and
produce it or if another studio wanted to produce it, they would have
to buy it back from the other party.  Any ancillary use of the script
(such as a novelization) would also require that kind of buy-out.

The only exception to this is that under the WGA's Separation of Rights
Provision, the writer owns the physical script...so the script of any
movie or TV show, produced or otherwise, can be published AS a script,
or copies can be sold, because they are the writer's property.

But all production related rights are off the table.

jms