[B5JMS] from jms: too damned much stuff

[b5jms at mail.fsl.cs.sunysb.edu]

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From: jmsatb5 at aol.com
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 16:11:29 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 90

Okay.  That's it.  I give up.

Over the last few days, I've been trying to sort through the tons of
boxes that have for the most part been sitting in storage for the last
several years to try and find space for all this stuff, and there just
isn't any.  The floors are wall-to-wall with boxes, crates, palletes,
you name it, the detritus of decades of making shows and writing comics
and being a pack-rack.  It has literally grown to overflow two rental
storage facilities.

I have reached the point best expressed by Oscar Wilde's last words:
"Either that wallpaper goes, or I do."

There's just no room, and I'm going insane.

So I'm going to have a yard sale.

Now, understand, the majority of this stuff will never leaving my
hands, and for those I have set aside places here at the house...the
statue of the B5 station that sat for five years on the desk of every
commanding officer on B5...the actual prop Book of G'Kar...a number of
props and bits of memorabilia that have honored places here.

But a lot of the rest is going to go out the door, because either that
wallpaper goes, or...well, you get the idea.

It's going to be kind of a JMS retrospective in some ways, because as I
said, this stuff covers decades...from memorabilia and storyboards for
the Ghostbusters, He-Man and Captain Power series, original scripts
from Twilight Zone and Murder, She Wrote...but the bulk of it is B5
stuff.

There are the actual script books I used during production, into which
I shoved the script I was working on, the breakdowns, shooting
schedules, any storyboards that were needed...the whole thing, in one
book per episode, some of which still have my original notations.

There are episodic dailies tapes, with takes and bits not previously
seen anywhere, posters, publicity material, a ton of stuff.

Props from the show, from my personal collection, where I have doubles
or just no place for them anymore.

(One of the things I'm letting go traces back to the pilot.  Not sure
if the show would ever actually go, I paid the wardrobe department to
make me a B5 captain's uniform.  I know, I know, I'm the ultimate geek,
but there you are.  Suffice to say given the passage of time and
calories, there's no way on god's green earth that that uniform is ever
going to fit.  Not that I ever wore it past the initial fitting, but
for sure it ain't gonna happen now.  So that's on its way out.)

Another prime item is going to be one of two huge original art pieces
that the late Peter Ledger did for me to help sell B5 itself, big,
elaborate paintings, signed by Peter.  The one I won't sell is the
first painting of the B5 station itself from the outside; the one I
just don't have room for is the very first visualization/painting of
the Garden area, with the core shuttle, folks floating around, and in
the bar, a fight breaking out between humans and aliens, with an early
version of Garibaldi in the thick of it.

There's caps, and a disco-style prototype of a B5 crew jacket, a few of
the original blue key B5 symbol t-shirts made up before we did the
pilot and given out at a couple of conventions, an assortment of
souvenirs and some truly, truly weird shit, some of which nobody's ever
heard of before, let alone seen.

I'm still holding on to about 75% of the stuff, but the other 25% has
got to go.

So starting sometime probably next week, the week of the 11th, and from
time to time over the next month or so, keep an eye on Ebay.  (I'm
playing with the idea of doing this chronologically, from the earliest
stuff to the latter stuff, but I don't know if I'm disciplined enough
for that.)  I likely won't put this stuff up every day, only when and
as I think of it.  So you may have days pass with nothing, then a day
when four or five items go up.  The Ebay user ID is babylon5auctions.
Once I've cleared out enough room to actually see the floor again, the
auctions will stop and that user ID will go away.

Let the games begin.

jms

(Message content copyright (c) 2005
by Synthetic Worlds, Ltd.
Permission to reprint specifically
denied to SFX Magazine)




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From: Wendy of NJ <voxwoman at gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 18:56:11 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 25

On Fri, 13 May 2005 18:40:36 +0000 (UTC), Oron Port
<zoraxe22 at netscape.net> wrote:

>On Fri, 13 May 2005 11:13:30 +0000 (UTC), Jan <janmschroeder at aol.com>
>wrote:
>
>>And the winner in the Unnofficial Guessing Game for the Winning Bid on the PPG
>>is.....
>>
>>me.  The PPG sold for $10,400.00 and my guess was $10,450.00
>>
>>I think if JMS does mor auctions, next time I'll pick a script or tape.  Those
>>really had a range in this round.
>>
>>Jan
>>
>
>Looks like it's 20kitties again. So this gets my hopes up that we a
>dealing with a collector, and not just one who will shred the items.

20kitties and filmwelt-berlin kinda cleaned up on this round.

-Wendy



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From: Jan <janmschroeder at aol.com>
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 20:50:06 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 35

In article <jut981dfgljr0ff9uqm41gormgmcar00ef at 4ax.com>, Wendy of NJ says...
>
>On Fri, 13 May 2005 18:40:36 +0000 (UTC), Oron Port
><zoraxe22 at netscape.net> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 13 May 2005 11:13:30 +0000 (UTC), Jan <janmschroeder at aol.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>And the winner in the Unnofficial Guessing Game for the Winning Bid on the PPG
>>>is.....
>>>
>>>me.  The PPG sold for $10,400.00 and my guess was $10,450.00
>>>
>>>I think if JMS does mor auctions, next time I'll pick a script or tape.  Those
>>>really had a range in this round.
>>>
>>>Jan
>>>
>>
>>Looks like it's 20kitties again. So this gets my hopes up that we a
>>dealing with a collector, and not just one who will shred the items.
>
>20kitties and filmwelt-berlin kinda cleaned up on this round.
>
>-Wendy


It's interesting to see how people value things.  To me, the Line Medal and
Ledger painting were the ones that I'd've paid the big bucks for.  And
re-reading my post above again, there's a word missing.  It should have been
'Next time I'll *try* to pick up a script'.  Big difference!

Jan



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From: Paul Harper <paul at harper.net>
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 22:51:59 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 29

On Fri, 13 May 2005 20:50:06 +0000 (UTC), Jan <janmschroeder at aol.com>
wrote:

>It's interesting to see how people value things.

At the risk of being seen as trolling (and I am NOT, despite Meth's
best [feeble] efforts to prove otherwise), you are not fsking kidding!

Although a few of the items have "collector" value, take a couple of
zeros off the end and I might be interested...

Just how many saddos are there out there? And sorry, but who's taking
advantage of that?

I strongly disapprove of fans being ripped off at the best of times -
anyone who's come across any conversation involving me and Cooney will
be able to attest to that. But the prices that are being paid for this
stuff is simply ridiculous!

Do these people have no lives?

Paul.

-- 
. A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality
. JMS: "SFX is a fairly useless publication on just about every imaginable front.
  Never have so many jumped-up fanboys done so little, with so much, for so long."
. EMail: Unless invited to, don't. Your message is likely to be automatically deleted.


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From: Oron Port <zoraxe22 at netscape.net>
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 23:18:21 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 40

On Fri, 13 May 2005 22:51:59 +0000 (UTC), Paul Harper
<paul at harper.net> wrote:

>On Fri, 13 May 2005 20:50:06 +0000 (UTC), Jan <janmschroeder at aol.com>
>wrote:
>
>>It's interesting to see how people value things.
>
>At the risk of being seen as trolling (and I am NOT, despite Meth's
>best [feeble] efforts to prove otherwise), you are not fsking kidding!
>
>Although a few of the items have "collector" value, take a couple of
>zeros off the end and I might be interested...
>
>Just how many saddos are there out there? And sorry, but who's taking
>advantage of that?
>
>I strongly disapprove of fans being ripped off at the best of times -
>anyone who's come across any conversation involving me and Cooney will
>be able to attest to that. But the prices that are being paid for this
>stuff is simply ridiculous!
>
>Do these people have no lives?
>
>Paul.

If I had lots of money, and by lots I mean LOTS(!), that couple of 10
thousand dollars out of my back pocket won't change anything for me, I
would have bought all those items. If you have the money, why not? 

Babylon 5 is dear to my heart, and to have that painting, for
instance, to wake up and look at every morning would have been
wonderful.

But I am just a student with no job and a cheap bastard, who can't
even spare the 300 for the B5 dvds, so I can't afford any of these
items at those prices.

Oron


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From: Paul Harper <paul at harper.net>
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 23:34:44 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 51

On Fri, 13 May 2005 23:18:21 +0000 (UTC), Oron Port
<zoraxe22 at netscape.net> wrote:

>If I had lots of money, and by lots I mean LOTS(!), that couple of 10
>thousand dollars out of my back pocket won't change anything for me, I
>would have bought all those items. If you have the money, why not? 

Because it devalues it, that's why.

If any schmuck with a wallet full of dosh can, irrespective of their
feelings for the show, buy into a piece of (what we probably all feel
is) history, then where's the value - intrinsic, artistic or
otherwise? Because it all boils down to cash. Something stupid, and in
the final analysis valueless.

>Babylon 5 is dear to my heart, and to have that painting, for
>instance, to wake up and look at every morning would have been
>wonderful.

Agreed absolutely.

>But I am just a student with no job and a cheap bastard, who can't
>even spare the 300 for the B5 dvds, so I can't afford any of these
>items at those prices.

Yes. My point exactly. Money is NOT might. Slinging cash at something
that should [and did (imho)] have a higher artistic value cheapens and
devalues the whole enterprise.

How much better might it have been to either produce reasonable
quality facsimiles of the original, under licence, so everyone can
have a bite at the apple, then put the originals in a showcase
somewhere so those that care about such things can view them?

Sorry to the "Fans of Joe", but I really would have preferred this
garage sale not take place. It has cheapened all of B5. It has, in
every sense of the word, turned it into a marketing opportunity, which
is what Trek became several decades ago.

I personally take offence at that. I value B5 at considerably more
than a throw-away eBay sale. B5 is not some deep-space franchise to be
profitted from.

Paul.

-- 
. A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality
. JMS: "SFX is a fairly useless publication on just about every imaginable front.
  Never have so many jumped-up fanboys done so little, with so much, for so long."
. EMail: Unless invited to, don't. Your message is likely to be automatically deleted.


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From: jmsatb5 at aol.com
Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 03:42:04 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 132

I'm sorry, Paul, but you're just not making any sense, on any
conceivable level.

First, a general note, which is that there's a peculiarly British thing
that flares into existence whenever somebody is seen making any kind of
money from something.  A work of art is fine and good as long as nobody
makes anything...the moment it becomes popular, well, then it's trash
or devalued.  I've seen it again and again in the media there, so this
doesn't surprise me to hear it here.  It's a class thing, I think.

I would also point out that WB didn't commission B5 for artistic
reasons...it did so because the studio thought they could make money
from it.  And it has.  Just the DVDs alone have grossed over half a
billion dollars.  Of which, incidentally, I have seen not one penny.
Due to the nature of my contract, on my first series, I will never see
a dime in profit off B5.  Ever.

That clean enough for your approval, Paul?

Now, to more specifics.

Paul Harper wrote:
> On Fri, 13 May 2005 23:18:21 +0000 (UTC), Oron Port
> <zoraxe22 at netscape.net> wrote:
>
> >If I had lots of money, and by lots I mean LOTS(!), that couple of
10
> >thousand dollars out of my back pocket won't change anything for me,
I
> >would have bought all those items. If you have the money, why not?
>
> Because it devalues it, that's why.
>

Bullshit.

The show is the show is the show.  This is stuff from my personal
collection.

And you know what, Paul?  When it comes to what I do with my personal
life, and what I own personally...you don't get a vote.  You don't get
to approve or disapprove.

> If any schmuck with a wallet full of dosh can, irrespective of their
> feelings for the show, buy into a piece of (what we probably all feel
> is) history, then where's the value - intrinsic, artistic or
> otherwise? Because it all boils down to cash. Something stupid, and
in
> the final analysis valueless.
>

More patent bullshit.

Look...in my collection I have two prize artifacts.  One is a Conklin
fountain pen once owned by Mark Twain.  The other is a copy of a Rod
Serling collection of short stories signed by Rod to, ironically, a
Joe.  You don't want to *know* what I paid for those.  Why was I
willing to pay that?  Because of the provenance, because of who had
owned them, whose hands had touched them.  That doesn't devalue Twain's
work, or Serling's work, it has to do with provenance.

And your argument that because something brings value it therefore has
no value or lesser value is one of the more breathtakingly vapid things
I've read in years.  By that same logic, if someone pays lots for a
Picasso painting, it therefore has no value.

Again, it's that British class system thing rearing its annoying head.

> >Babylon 5 is dear to my heart, and to have that painting, for
> >instance, to wake up and look at every morning would have been
> >wonderful.
>
> Agreed absolutely.
>
> >But I am just a student with no job and a cheap bastard, who can't
> >even spare the 300 for the B5 dvds, so I can't afford any of these
> >items at those prices.
>
> Yes. My point exactly. Money is NOT might. Slinging cash at something
> that should [and did (imho)] have a higher artistic value cheapens
and
> devalues the whole enterprise.
>

So artists should suffer and be paid nothing so that their value
remains?  You're not making any sense.  Even for a Brit.

> How much better might it have been to either produce reasonable
> quality facsimiles of the original, under licence, so everyone can
> have a bite at the apple, then put the originals in a showcase
> somewhere so those that care about such things can view them?
>
> Sorry to the "Fans of Joe", but I really would have preferred this
> garage sale not take place. It has cheapened all of B5. It has, in
> every sense of the word, turned it into a marketing opportunity,
which
> is what Trek became several decades ago.
>

This is where the illogic of your argument takes flight into realms
hitherto undreamt of.

You're saying that in orderf to avoid something becoming a marketing
opportunity, one should mass produce the item in question, in lesser
form, removing therefore the benefit of provenance...and sell lots and
lots of copies.

See, to me, THAT is marketing, THAT is merchandising.

In most cases, these are one-offs that were used in actual production.
A copy wouldn't be the same thing, it's NOT the same thing...again,
it's the question of provenance.

> I personally take offence at that. I value B5 at considerably more
> than a throw-away eBay sale. B5 is not some deep-space franchise to
be
> profitted from.

Except that WB profits from it every day.  The only person really who
doesn't profit from it is me.  But that's okay by you, apparently.
Artists should make nothing, or they're sellouts.

Bullshit, Paul.  Utter tripe.  And by the way...you should really take
a good look at your sig next time before you post something like this.

jms

> --
>   Never have so many jumped-up fanboys done so little, with so much,
for so long."



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From: "Ali Hopkins" <fn62 at dial.pipex.com>
Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 12:34:11 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 33


<jmsatb5 at aol.com> wrote in message 
news:1116042082.156643.48310 at g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

 I've nothing to add to the  general debate, but wanted to comment on the 
following, hence the snippage:

> First, a general note, which is that there's a peculiarly British thing
> that flares into existence whenever somebody is seen making any kind of
> money from something.  A work of art is fine and good as long as nobody
> makes anything...the moment it becomes popular, well, then it's trash
> or devalued.  I've seen it again and again in the media there, so this
> doesn't surprise me to hear it here.  It's a class thing, I think.
>
<snippage>

> Again, it's that British class system thing rearing its annoying head.
>

>So artists should suffer and be paid nothing so that their value
>remains?  You're not making any sense.  Even for a Brit.

I don't know why you felt it necessary to insult all of us Brits, but I find 
it deeply offensive. I've no problem with you insulting  individual posters, 
Usenet is like that. But this was utterly uncalled for.

You *had* a lot of fans over here. I suspect you may have just alienated and 
lost a fair few, and I include myself in that.

Ali




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From: jmsatb5 at aol.com
Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 21:56:05 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 53


Ali Hopkins wrote:
> <jmsatb5 at aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1116042082.156643.48310 at g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>  I've nothing to add to the  general debate, but wanted to comment on
the
> following, hence the snippage:
>
> > First, a general note, which is that there's a peculiarly British
thing
> > that flares into existence whenever somebody is seen making any
kind of
> > money from something.  A work of art is fine and good as long as
nobody
> > makes anything...the moment it becomes popular, well, then it's
trash
> > or devalued.  I've seen it again and again in the media there, so
this
> > doesn't surprise me to hear it here.  It's a class thing, I think.
> >
> <snippage>
>
> > Again, it's that British class system thing rearing its annoying
head.
> >
>
> >So artists should suffer and be paid nothing so that their value
> >remains?  You're not making any sense.  Even for a Brit.
>
> I don't know why you felt it necessary to insult all of us Brits, but
I find
> it deeply offensive. I've no problem with you insulting  individual
posters,
> Usenet is like that. But this was utterly uncalled for.
>
> You *had* a lot of fans over here. I suspect you may have just
alienated and
> lost a fair few, and I include myself in that.
>
> Ali

Are you saying the class system/attitude doesn't exist?

Or that it was rude of me to point it out?

Because the former has been chronicled for decades by writers and
social scientists and commentators...many of them also British, by the
by.

jms