[B5JMS] ATTN JMS: "Russian cabbie"??

Fri Dec 19 04:35:03 EST 2008

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From: yawnmoth <terra1024 at yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 19:09:24 -0800 (PST)
Lines: 20

What sources give the best insight into where Crusade was going?
Here's everything I know that discusses it, be it directly or
indirectly:

http://movies.ign.com/articles/035/035907p1.html
Crusade Writers Bible
The 3x scripts on the now defunct bookface.com
The now removed commentary JMS provided on the Crusade DVDs

I'd also hazard to cite "The Original Five Year Arc" as included in
Volume 15 if, for no other reason, only because of the fact that both
it and Crusade have the protagonist being turned into pariahs.
Indeed, it almost seems as though Crusade was supposed to be JMS's
chance to tell the story he had originally planned on telling for
Babylon 5.

Anyway, is there any other material that might be able to provide an
insight into where Crusade was going?

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From: Jan <janmschroeder at aol.com>
Date: 8 Dec 2008 06:02:59 -0800
Lines: 17

In article <df4d22ee-fa13-4946-a877-6342030554c9 at f3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,
yawnmoth says...
>
>What sources give the best insight into where Crusade was going?

It/they don't exist yet but JMS has said the he's likely to cover some of that
information when he does the Crusade script books.

http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-17552

Jan

-- 
"What is built, endures. What is loved, endures.
And Babylon 5...Babylon 5...endures."

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From: mpvorkosigan at hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 20:00:32 -0800 (PST)
Lines: 27

On Dec 8, 8:02=A0am, Jan <janmschroe... at aol.com> wrote:
> In article <df4d22ee-fa13-4946-a877-634203055... at f3g2000yqf.googlegroups.=
com>,
> yawnmoth says...
>
>
>
> >What sources give the best insight into where Crusade was going?
>
> It/they don't exist yet but JMS has said the he's likely to cover some of=
 that
> information when he does the Crusade script books.

I'd like Joe to do the script books for Captain Power. There was a lot
of good story there, even if it had been gutted by Mattel. When I met
him in 1987, he did a panel where he told a fair amount of what had
been planned, and his arc was for three seasons; season one would have
been the setup, season two would have been when everything got really
dark and the true villain was revealed, and season three would have
been former enemies teaming up to battle the real danger.

But the toys didn't sell, and the plug got pulled. That was the point
where, as he put it, he resolved not to get entangled again with a
show connected with a line of toys.

Mike

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From: Bill <feline_ranger at yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:37:43 -0800 (PST)
Lines: 36

On Dec 9, 11:00=EF=BF=BDpm, mpvorkosi... at hotmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 8, 8:02=EF=BF=BDam, Jan <janmschroe... at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <df4d22ee-fa13-4946-a877-634203055... at f3g2000yqf.googlegroup=
s.com>,
> > yawnmoth says...
>
> > >What sources give the best insight into where Crusade was going?
>
> > It/they don't exist yet but JMS has said the he's likely to cover some =
of that
> > information when he does the Crusade script books.
>
> I'd like Joe to do the script books for Captain Power. There was a lot
> of good story there, even if it had been gutted by Mattel. When I met
> him in 1987, he did a panel where he told a fair amount of what had
> been planned, and his arc was for three seasons; season one would have
> been the setup, season two would have been when everything got really
> dark and the true villain was revealed, and season three would have
> been former enemies teaming up to battle the real danger.
>
> But the toys didn't sell, and the plug got pulled. That was the point
> where, as he put it, he resolved not to get entangled again with a
> show connected with a line of toys.
>

I read somewhere, long ago that the Capt. Power show was considered
enough of a hit in spite of the toys' poor sales. That same source
also claimed that JMS walked away due to excessive interference from
Mattel. The source said that Mattel just wanted a 30 minute commercial
for the toys and JMS wanted to tell a real story. Since the behavior
fits JMS established patterns, I always figured this was accurate. Is
there a more accurate source?

Bill

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From: mpvorkosigan at hotmail.com
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:38:16 -0800 (PST)
Lines: 54

On Dec 10, 8:37=A0pm, Bill <feline_ran... at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Dec 9, 11:00 pm, mpvorkosi... at hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 8, 8:02 am, Jan <janmschroe... at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > In article <df4d22ee-fa13-4946-a877-634203055... at f3g2000yqf.googlegro=
ups.com>,
> > > yawnmoth says...
>
> > > >What sources give the best insight into where Crusade was going?
>
> > > It/they don't exist yet but JMS has said the he's likely to cover som=
e of that
> > > information when he does the Crusade script books.
>
> > I'd like Joe to do the script books for Captain Power. There was a lot
> > of good story there, even if it had been gutted by Mattel. When I met
> > him in 1987, he did a panel where he told a fair amount of what had
> > been planned, and his arc was for three seasons; season one would have
> > been the setup, season two would have been when everything got really
> > dark and the true villain was revealed, and season three would have
> > been former enemies teaming up to battle the real danger.
>
> > But the toys didn't sell, and the plug got pulled. That was the point
> > where, as he put it, he resolved not to get entangled again with a
> > show connected with a line of toys.
>
> I read somewhere, long ago that the Capt. Power show was considered
> enough of a hit in spite of the toys' poor sales. That same source
> also claimed that JMS walked away due to excessive interference from
> Mattel. The source said that Mattel just wanted a 30 minute commercial
> for the toys and JMS wanted to tell a real story. Since the behavior
> fits JMS established patterns, I always figured this was accurate. Is
> there a more accurate source?

No, that's pretty much dead on. Joe once described SW: The Phantom
Menace as a 2 1/2 hour toy commercial, which is fairly concise.

The man's a storyteller. He doesn't like being told what to do by
people who have no clue about what a storyteller does. That was a big
part of the Crusade mess. The TNT guys knew nothing about the process,
and wanted more than anything to have a bigger say in the show. For
them, that spelled sex and violence. And it ultimately cost them what
could have been a landmark show.

I suspect they felt the same way at CBS when Star Trek became a hit in
syndication.

Mike

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From: Duggy <P.Allan.Duggan at gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 19:05:38 -0800 (PST)
Lines: 11

On Dec 13, 7:38=A0am, mpvorkosi... at hotmail.com wrote:
> No, that's pretty much dead on. Joe once described SW: The Phantom
> Menace as a 2 1/2 hour toy commercial, which is fairly concise.

To be fair that whole Podrace thing was clearly a computer game
commercial.

=3D=3D=3D
=3D DUG.
=3D=3D=3D

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From: mpvorkosigan at hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 20:24:31 -0800 (PST)
Lines: 26

On Dec 13, 9:05=A0pm, Duggy <P.Allan.Dug... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 13, 7:38=A0am, mpvorkosi... at hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > No, that's pretty much dead on. Joe once described SW: The Phantom
> > Menace as a 2 1/2 hour toy commercial, which is fairly concise.
>
> To be fair that whole Podrace thing was clearly a computer game
> commercial.

Oh yeah.

The kid grated on my nerves, there was no real feeling of jeopardy,
and at the end, you don't have enough emotional investment in either
Qui-Gonn or Darth Maul to give a rat's ass about what happens to them.
We know too much about what's coming to care about what's happening,
if that makes sense.

I'm more convinced every day that Lucas should never have made these.
Even in the second movie, when Anakin jumps out of the speeder and
dives toward the ground, you know he's gonna live.

Ask JMS about the Russian cabby. That story is one of the best
analyses of where a movie went wrong that I've ever heard.

Mike

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From: Matt Ion <soundy106 at gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 02:32:02 -0800
Lines: 7

mpvorkosigan at hotmail.com wrote:

> Ask JMS about the Russian cabby. That story is one of the best
> analyses of where a movie went wrong that I've ever heard.

Okay...

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From: "jmsatb5 at aol.com" <jmsatb5 at aol.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 01:05:47 -0800 (PST)
Lines: 25

On Dec 14, 2:32=A0am, Matt Ion <soundy... at gmail.com> wrote:
> mpvorkosi... at hotmail.com wrote:
> > Ask JMS about the Russian cabby. That story is one of the best
> > analyses of where a movie went wrong that I've ever heard.
>
> Okay...

I use cabs a lot, and one day I had this driver with a thick Russian
accent (appropriate since physicall he was a thick Russian), and he
knew I was a writer, so he said to me, and you must read this with an
accent, "I went see new Star Wars film, you've seen?"

I allowed as how I had, and asked what he thought.

"It needed salt."

I waited, figuring some explanation would follow.  It didn't.  "More
salt...?" I said.

He nodded.  "Da.  When you cook, salt makes things more what they
are.  Meat is more meat.  Fish is more fish.  You taste more the
thing.  Brings more flavor.  No salt, no flavor.  Movie needed salt."

jms