[LUGSB] FW: Amanda Stent: Nov. 22nd -- undergraduates
Erez Zadok
ezk at cs.sunysb.edu
Wed Nov 5 21:45:16 EST 2003
Thanks Mark.
Often, an inexpensive way to make a poster is to print several 8.5x11 pages
and glue them onto a larger board. If you want, I can supply nice
photo-quality color printer paper and matching printer time.
Erez.
>From ezk at fsl.cs.sunysb.edu Wed Nov 5 21:48:03 2003
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From: Erez Zadok <ezk at cs.sunysb.edu>
To: Linux Users Group at Stony Brook <lugsb at fsl.cs.sunysb.edu>
Subject: Re: [LUGSB] Fedora Core 1 Available
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 05 Nov 2003 15:49:58 EST."
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Fedora may be a high quality distro now, b/c it builds on top of an already
high-quality distro, redhat 9. It remains to be seen whether Fedora will
continue to be of high quality, and whether anyone will commit to release
important (security) fixes quickly for the next few years' worth of
releases.
Erez.
>From aaranya at ic.sunysb.edu Wed Nov 5 22:08:10 2003
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Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:08:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Akshat Aranya <aaranya at ic.sunysb.edu>
To: Erez Zadok <ezk at cs.sunysb.edu>
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Subject: [LUGSB] Re: Novell+IBM buys SUSE
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On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Erez Zadok wrote:
> Interesting shakeup in Linux Land:
>
> http://news.com.com/2100-7344_3-5101680.html?tag=nefd_lede
>
> I'm actually happy. Red Hat needs a swift kick in the pants.
>
> Just yesterday I got an email from Red Hat, sent to all of their registered
> customers (including those who register freely available red hat copies),
> informing them of the end-of-life plans for Red Hat Linux. Basically,
> they're dropping support for all Red Hat Linux products by April 2004.
> Thereafter, you'd have to BUY one of their Red Hat Workstation or Red Hat
> Enterprise products. No more freebees.
>
> It's rumored that there might be a freely-available release from Red Hat
> called "Fedora Linux" (http://fedora.redhat.com/) but that will not be
> maintained by the company, but by the developers, whenever they feel like it
> or have time: this essentially means that freely-available Red Hat Linux may
> not be well maintained (think esp. about security fixes) unless you pay for
> it.
>
As far as I could gather, Fedora should be good enough for the people who
don't/can't pay for distributions. I believe that Fedora will be more
"cutting edge" than the Enterprise products. From Red Hat's point of
view, it makes sense to not have a free yet supported distribution.
Fedora may actually be good considering that it is community supported and
therefore can have more frequent releases than enterprise offerings.
Their website claims that updates can still be downloaded using up2date,
so I don't think security updates will be lacking.
> This Red Hat move was bound to happen. A lot of companies who started by
> giving out freebees became successfull and grew large enough to a point
> where they felt they didn't need the "free advertizing." But, Red Hat is
> neglecting an important lesson: don't ignore the grass roots academic users;
> it's well worth giving free licenses to academic users, many of whom
> graduate, go to work, and then... recommend and buy the real thing!
>
> In the 70s, IBM stopped giving freebees to universities. IBM survived.
>
> In the 80s, DEC stopped giving freebees to universities. DEC did not
> survive, not before making several terrible commercial decisions which could
> have been avoided had their listened to university researchers (e.g., the
> Mach-based OSF/1 was a flop).
>
> In the 90s, Sun stopped giving freebees to universities. Sun is doing very
> poorly and has been a company in decline for more than 5-6 years. Their
> stocks are in shambles. And the company has no direction or vision. Sun
> will not survive this decade. Mark my words.
>
Sun will definitely die, which is a pity since they still have a
rock-solid operating system running on rock-solid hardware. Scott McNealy
cannot seem to decide whether he wants to bash Linux or imbrace it.
> And now, in the 00s (pronounced "naughties" :-), Red Hat is following suit.
> Red Hat's whole profit base is not terribly strong to begin with. There are
> many competitions just looking to be the new University Champions instead of
> Redhat; SuSE may very well fulfill that role. By dropping the freebees,
> SuSE are seriously jeopardizing their user base, not to mention alienating
> many of their long time supporters (like me).
>
> For now, SUSE does provide freely available releases. They are just not as
> good as red hat's. If Novell+IBM will make SuSE drop their freely available
> releases (at least to universities), someone will come forward, perhaps a
> true freely-available release with a good user base, and will offer a well
> maintained freely-available distribution (the way Slackware used to be way
> back then).
>
I think that the whole freebee thing does not matter to Novell/SuSE/Red
Hat any more. Nobody can dispute that Linux is here to stay. The biggies
don't need people from universities to go and push Linux at their jobs.
They can provide a corporate-friendly distribution knowing that the
Debians and Gentoos will not compete with them in the corporate world.
The universities will probably give up on Red Hat and SuSE and move on to
Debians and Gentoos (if they're not doing that already). Again, I don't
blame Red Hat or SuSE for the change of direction. They're in it to make
money. Also, we cannot deny that they have made a big contribution to
Linux by way of kernel/application development. They will continue to do
so because GPL will make them.
> Watch this saga. It'll be an interesting one.
>
> BTW, this purchase is also a slap in the face of SCO in their attempt to
> squeeze some dollars out of the Linux world. It essentially says that
> Novell and IBM do not believe that SCO's suit has any merit.
>
Novell has been going out of their way recently to be Linux community
friendly. They claimed that they didn't really give the Unix license to
SCO, which was later disproved. Maybe it was a PR stunt as a precursor to
buying out Ximian and SuSE.
> Erez.
Akshat.
> _______________________________________________
> fsl mailing list
> fsl at mail.fsl.cs.sunysb.edu
> http://www.fsl.cs.sunysb.edu/mailman/listinfo/fsl
>
>From ezk at fsl.cs.sunysb.edu Wed Nov 5 22:19:05 2003
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From: Erez Zadok <ezk at cs.sunysb.edu>
To: Linux Users Group at Stony Brook <lugsb at fsl.cs.sunysb.edu>
Subject: Re: [LUGSB] Movie Thursday, other good news
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In message <1067987158.17313.6.camel at localhost.localdomain>, Mark writes:
[...]
> have is ours. We get a desk, a chair, and maybe a filing cabinet. Of
> course, I'm very curious to know if we get an internet connection
> (unlikely), but I haven't been able to get into the room yet. So, we'll
You can probably get wireless access there.
Erez.
>From ionut at badula.org Tue Nov 4 16:59:06 2003
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Subject: [LUGSB] Re: Novell+IBM buys SUSE
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On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Erez Zadok wrote:
> It's rumored that there might be a freely-available release from Red Hat
> called "Fedora Linux" (http://fedora.redhat.com/) but that will not be
> maintained by the company, but by the developers, whenever they feel like it
> or have time: this essentially means that freely-available Red Hat Linux may
> not be well maintained (think esp. about security fixes) unless you pay for
> it.
It should be reasonably-well maintained, but only for a short time, until
the next "release" comes out. So it's not an option really, unless you
enjoy upgrading the OS on lots of machines twice a year. I know I don't.
> This Red Hat move was bound to happen. A lot of companies who started by
> giving out freebees became successfull and grew large enough to a point
> where they felt they didn't need the "free advertizing." But, Red Hat is
> neglecting an important lesson: don't ignore the grass roots academic users;
> it's well worth giving free licenses to academic users, many of whom
> graduate, go to work, and then... recommend and buy the real thing!
Yes, and not just universities. SA's tend to recommend to others what
they use themselves; firstly there will be no more Red Hat for personal
use (it will be Fedora, which is a different brand name even if it's the
same thing), and secondly even Fedora might not be attractive enough for
home use if it's not reasonable to use.
> In the 90s, Sun stopped giving freebees to universities. Sun is doing very
> poorly and has been a company in decline for more than 5-6 years. Their
> stocks are in shambles. And the company has no direction or vision. Sun
> will not survive this decade. Mark my words.
I know, and I'm actually rather worried about the future of Java if Sun
collapses.
> For now, SUSE does provide freely available releases. They are just not as
> good as red hat's. If Novell+IBM will make SuSE drop their freely available
> releases (at least to universities), someone will come forward, perhaps a
> true freely-available release with a good user base, and will offer a well
> maintained freely-available distribution (the way Slackware used to be way
> back then).
Did somebody say "Debian" :-)
Ion
--
It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool,
than to open it and remove all doubt.
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