JMS on CompuServe (Aug 25, 1996) * FINAL FIVE SPOILERS *

Mon Aug 26 00:01:54 EDT 1996

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 The following posts DO contain SPOILERS for
 upcoming Babylon 5 episodes.

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 This SPECIAL section of "JMS on CompuServe" 
 posts contains spoilers for the Final Five 
 episodes of season three.  

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 This SPECIAL section of "JMS on CompuServe" 
 posts contains spoilers for the Final Five 
 episodes of season three.  

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 [ Summary of subjects in this section: ]
    Sb: #566301-<<War Council>>
    Sb: #566433-<<War Council>>
    Sb: #566649-<<Walkabout>>

 #: 566301 S6/Babylon 5: Spoilers
    24-Aug-96  15:47:55
Sb: #<<War Council>>
Fm: BRENT BARRETT

<< Walkabout spoilers below >>

Hello, Joe;

Just viewed "Walkabout."  After two viewings, I'd have to say it was a bit
uneven in places but still very enjoyable.  Good work.

One question: I was under the impression that Sheridan was the military leader
of the Army of Light, is this not correct?  I understand that each of the
governments in the alliance have a say in how their forces are used, but it
seems odd that the War Council could overrule Sheridan with a majority vote.
Is this to be a war by committee? God help them all if it is! :-)  Or was it
more of a case of Garibaldi and Ivanova kidding a little and Sheridan realizing
it was a better plan?

How exactly is the Army of Light organized?

Thanks,

  -- Brent

 #: 566427 S6/Babylon 5: Spoilers
    24-Aug-96  19:56:21
Sb: #566301-<<War Council>>
Fm: J. MICHAEL STRACZYNSKI

      Sheridan commands the Army of Light, Delenn as second.  If the AOL speaks
with one voice on something of importance, they have to be listened to.  When
Sheridan put himself on the front lines, he was then taking on the role of
soldier, not commander.  They also felt it risked leaving them without said
commander if it went wrong.

      Bear in mind that their orders in *no* way compromised his actual
mission, or over-rode his decision.  They were sending along a secondary
mission to keep an eye on the primary mission.  I don't see a conflict here.

                                                                    jms

 #: 566433 S6/Babylon 5: Spoilers
    24-Aug-96  20:26:48
Sb: #566427-#<<War Council>>
Fm: BRENT BARRETT

>>Bear in mind that their orders in *no* way compromised his actual mission, or
over-rode his decision.  They were sending along a secondary mission to keep an
eye on the primary mission.  I don't see a conflict here.<<

Thanks.  What I guess really got to me was that they took a vote, which seems
odd in a military structure.  *Very* odd, indeed.  I understand that he was
placing himself on the front line, but that doesn't usually reduce a
commander's authority.  His subordinates can respectfully object, but they can
never (in the real world, as I understand it) change or otherwise alter his
orders with a majority vote.

It just seemed, well, odd. :-)

But, of course, it's just a nit, as I otherwise enjoyed the story.

  -- Brent

 #: 566539 S6/Babylon 5: Spoilers
    25-Aug-96  01:03:30
Sb: #566433-<<War Council>>
Fm: J. MICHAEL STRACZYNSKI

      Just some comparisons to illustrate...during WW II, the head of naval
operations for the Japanese fleet insisted on being on board during several of
their more pivotal missions.  His subordinates insisted that additional ships
be sent as escorts given his importance to war strategy.  That's a very rigid
military structure, but when *all* the subordinates get together on something,
to go against it causes more problems than it's worth.

      Even within the context of a conventional military situation, there's
flexibility.  If a commanding officer gives an order which is immoral, illegal,
or against the rules of engagement, a subordinate can refuse to implement that
order, even give a countermanding order which, depending on the situation (such
as a nuclear missile firing) would take precedence over the CO's order (though
you'd first have to relieve the CO of command, and if you do that, you'd darned
well better be prepared to back it up with every legal and moral means at your
disposal, or it's mutiny).  Heck, it was just this kind of dilemma that was at
the core of the movie "Crimson Tide," and was brought up in the recent war
crime trials going on investigating what happened in Bosnia, with a soldier
being asked why he didn't refuse to carry out an order to kill civilians.

      Ain't a lot of black-and-whites in the world, but a whole lotta greys.

                                                                    jms

 [ Note: Hey, it's my compilation, I can post my final reply, can't I? :-) ]

 #: 566791 S6/Babylon 5: Spoilers
    25-Aug-96  11:15:20
Sb: #566539-<<War Council>>
Fm: BRENT BARRETT

Absolutely, Joe.  You and I are in agreement then.  As you said, ". . . to go
against it causes more problems than it's worth."  It should be clear that
Sheridan could've nixed the plan, but realized (being a good commander) that it
would cause more problems than it's worth. In no way should the Council have
been able to alter his plan without his approval, or you would have war by
committee, which is bound to fail (see "Vietnam" for an example :-).

And I have no argument with your second paragraph about a subordinate's ability
to question immoral/illegal orders.  But I don't think that was the issue we
were discussing, as it never came up in the episode. Garibaldi, Ivanova and
Delenn merely wanted more protection added to the plan, they didn't question
his decision to *do* the test.

Thanks,

  -- Brent

 #: 566649 S6/Babylon 5: Spoilers
    25-Aug-96  07:49:11
Sb: #563502-#<<Walkabout>>
Fm: ANNE L. WARNER

Joe,

Would it be possible (and not too much typing) for you to post those lyrics
here?  Maybe upload them as a library file, so that they wouldn't go away?  I'd
really like to see them in more detail, and I'll bet they may have
significance. You seem to like hiding stuff in places like that...

Pretty please?  With a virtual (no calories) hot fudge sundae?

Anne

 #: 566938 S6/Babylon 5: Spoilers
    25-Aug-96  15:36:13
Sb: #566649-<<Walkabout>>
Fm: J. MICHAEL STRACZYNSKI

      Will try to remember to do that soonish....

                                                                    jms

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