Triluminary WAS NEVER CREATED??!? (JMS, what have you done?)

[B5JMS Poster]

Subject: Triluminary WAS NEVER CREATED??!? (JMS, what have you done?)
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 No. | DATE        |  FROM
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s  1: Dec 10, 1996: pedwards at valhalla.cs.wright.edu (Phil Edwards)
+  6: Dec 10, 1996: sankarah at ix.netcom.com (Chris Campbell)
*  7: Dec 11, 1996: jmsatb5 at aol.com

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From: pedwards at valhalla.cs.wright.edu (Phil Edwards)
Lines: 52


We're far enough past _War Without End_ that I won't put any spoiler
space in here.  If you haven't seen it, then you should definitely
skip this mes^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hgo and CATCH UP!!!


Anyhow.  I was just browsing through old episodes in the Lurjer's Guide
which I'd missed, and I noticed an odd line from "jms speaks" in the
page for _Chrysalis_.  JMS is responding to someone else:

	"There is good reason to believe the Minbari Triluminary
	device is an artifact not created by the Minbari." 

	DING*DING*DING*DING*DING*DING*DING*DING! 

Okay, fine, that's pretty straightforward.  But the next JMS quote is
really hurting my cause-and-effect glands:

	Actually, the first Triluminary was found by the Minbari, not
	made by them, in a vessel they ran into about a thousand years
	ago.

So, Delenn is given the T by a fellow Council friend.  She uses it to
alter her form, then holds on to it for almost two years.  Then she
gives it to Sinclair, who goes back a thousand years, changing himself
into a Minbari.  "Valen" then gives the T to the Council.  Does anyone
else have a problem with this?

Granted, it probably wasn't the same T (I am uncertain here; if we know
for a fact that there's only one, then the problem gets manifestly
worse).  But where did the original concept come from?  If the first one
was found and then copied, then one of those copies went back and became
the first one.  I keep looking for a police box half-hidden behind some
junk in a cargo bay...

[a bit of speculation here]
Leaving aside the absence of a moment of creation, it does appear pretty
obvious that the T was/were created by the Vorlons.  We have the long
Vorlon/Minbari association, Delenn's visit to Kosh before her change,
and the appearance of two Vorlons flanking Valen when the Minbari first
land on Babylon 4.  But the reason for such a gift?  We have who, but we
still lack when and why.  Given the Vorlons' recent attitudes (Kosh Mk 2
and the "Vorlon Tour 2261"), I wonder if the triluminaries will come to
play a more sinister role?  Time bombs?

Tell me I'm missing something obvious, please.


--
"I gave in to Tock and all I got was this lousy t-shirt."
                                          -Lorien's wardrobe as designed by me


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From: sankarah at ix.netcom.com (Chris Campbell)
Lines: 70

In article <58inv9$qke at vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, s-orso at staff.uiuc.edu (orso steven n) wrote:
>pedwards at valhalla.cs.wright.edu (Phil Edwards) writes:
>
>
>>We're far enough past _War Without End_ that I won't put any spoiler
>>space in here.  If you haven't seen it, then you should definitely
>>skip this mes^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hgo and CATCH UP!!!
>
>
>>Anyhow.  I was just browsing through old episodes in the Lurjer's Guide
>>which I'd missed, and I noticed an odd line from "jms speaks" in the
>>page for _Chrysalis_.  JMS is responding to someone else:
>
>>       "There is good reason to believe the Minbari Triluminary
>>       device is an artifact not created by the Minbari." 
>
>>       DING*DING*DING*DING*DING*DING*DING*DING! 
>
>>Okay, fine, that's pretty straightforward.  But the next JMS quote is
>>really hurting my cause-and-effect glands:
>
>>       Actually, the first Triluminary was found by the Minbari, not
>>       made by them, in a vessel they ran into about a thousand years
>>       ago.
>
>>So, Delenn is given the T by a fellow Council friend.  She uses it to
>>alter her form, then holds on to it for almost two years.  Then she
>>gives it to Sinclair, who goes back a thousand years, changing himself
>>into a Minbari.  "Valen" then gives the T to the Council.  Does anyone
>>else have a problem with this?
>
>[Further theorizing about the origins of the triluminary snipped.]
>
>
>Yes, there is a problem.
>
>The triluminary that Sinclair used was brought aboard the White Star
>by Zathras from Epsilon 3.  According to JMS, the chrysalis machine 
>Sinclair used to change into Valen was in the long, yellow boxes
>with triangles on their short ends that Zathras brought aboard 
>Babylon 4 in "War Without End, Part 2."  Evidently another scene 
>that would have made this clearer was cut owing to considerations of
>time (so to speak).  I think the pertinent quotes from JMS should
>be on the Lurker's Guide episode page for "WWE/2" by now; however,
>there is a backlog of quotes from Season Three that have yet to be
>added to the Guide, which means it is possible that all the remarks
>from JMS on the subject are not yet available there.
>
>That triluminary was the one Delenn's people "found" a long time ago.
>It was the one Delenn used 1,000 years later when *she* went into a
>chrysalis.  Thus, the triluminary that opened the door for Minbari
>souls to migrate into Humans was the same one that closed that door
>1,000 years later.  Because it came from Epsilon Three, it was
>probably made by the makers of the Great Machine--who may have been
>First Ones, though not necessarily Vorlons.
>
>We have yet to be given any explanation of how the Minbari obtained
>their other two triluminaries, the existence of which is indicated in
>"Babylon Squared."

At least one of those would have to be the same triluminary.  If the one 
Sinclair used came from Epsilon 3, then the one Delenn used was still hanging 
around on B5 somewhere.  It's the same triluminary, but the Minbari didn't 
know that.  Now, I'd bet that since this is the case, the third triluminary 
might well be the same one as well; that would entail more time travel, but 
the notion of two being the same one and one being different is just odd, to 
me.

Chris


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From: jmsatb5 at aol.com
Lines: 9

As will be noted in an upcoming episode, the Triluminaries originally came
from Epsilon 3 with the other equipment brought aboard by Zathras.


 jms




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