Star Trek: Babylon 5? (no spoilers)

Sat Jun 29 06:14:08 EDT 1996

Subject: Star Trek: Babylon 5? (no spoilers)
-----+-------------+--------------------------------------------------
 No. | DATE        |  FROM
-----+-------------+--------------------------------------------------
+  1: Jun 27, 1996: pmaranci at tiac.net (Peter Maranci)
+  3: Jun 28, 1996: denebeim at deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
*  4: Jun 28, 1996: jmsatb5 at aol.com (Jms at B5)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From: pmaranci at tiac.net (Peter Maranci)
Lines: 108

    It's been said (hell, it's in the FAQ) that JMS pitched 
Babylon 5 to Paramount two years before DS9 was created. Recently 
I found myself wondering about that.  

    It seems unlikely that anyone would expect Paramount to 
produce anything other than a Trek-related SF show for television 
(certainly back then, anyway). If JMS pitched Babylon 5 to 
Paramount's pinhead execs, did he present it as "Star Trek: 
Babylon 5"?  

    He may have already covered this point, but I couldn't help 
speculating. How well would B5 fit into the Trek universe?  What 
would the corollaries be?  

    Note that I'm NOT suggesting that the following is accurate. 
I'm just amusing myself with speculation. No offense to JMS is 
intended.  

    1. Timeline. The first step is to decide *when* the story 
would have taken place. If we use the lack of transporter 
technology as a key, then ST:B5 would have to take place before 
transporters were invented, even before ST:TOS. However, tech may 
be a bad guide to this point. After all, B5 is definitely 
light years away from Earth, requiring FTL travel. There have 
never been Jumpgates in the Trek universe, so if B5 were in that 
setting we'd have to assume that the details of tech would be 
ignored; B5 would operate on Treknology. In fact, there are few 
if any points of tech which are *indispensable* to the B5 plot 
(which is one of the things that makes it good SF).  

    Sociology doesn't help us, either. A corrupt Earth government 
is integral to B5, but the Federation has shown corrupt elements 
throughout the Trek saga. The early years of the Fed haven't been 
detailed much.  

    Perhaps it would be better to derive other key points and 
attempt to work backwards to the time.  

    2. Races. If B5 were set in the Trek universe, what of the 
aliens?  Well, for one thing they'd all have stupid bits of glop 
stuck to their faces, and they'd all be obsessed with sex.  
However, it seems logical to assume that at least *some* standard 
Trek aliens would have been used ST:B5. If so, who would be what?  

    The Vulcans seem to be the best choice to fill the role of 
the Minbari. They share an eldritch quality, superhuman strength, 
and a certain reserve. This would require that ST:B5 be set 
*early* in the Trek universe, close to the time of first contact 
with the Vulcans -- an event that has never been shown or 
discussed in a Trek show.  

    Problem: the Romulans. The Romulan War was a major event in 
early Federation history. What's more, they were an enigmatic 
foe, much like the Minbari during the Earth-Minbari War. They're 
a better fit for the Minbari role on that point. On the other 
hand, according to later ST shows the Romulans *never* had 
regular diplomatic relations with Earth -- a major inconsistency.  
When push comes to shove, I'd vote for the Vulcans as Minbari.  

    The Klingons could fill the role of the Narn rather well.  
They're both militant, aggressive, technologically a little 
backward...slightly barbaric. Both seem evil at first, but turn 
out to have more depth.  

    That being the case, the Romulans would be the obvious choice 
for the Centauri. They've fought the Klingons, after all.  
However, once again we face the problem that throughout the Trek 
timeline there is no indication that th Romulans open regular 
relations with Earth.  

    The Vorlons? The Organians seem to be a tolerable fit for the 
role, though any of the infinite number of energy beings in the 
Trek universe would also work.  

    The Shadows are tough. They'd probably have to be a new race.  

    As for the rest of the aliens of B5, there'd be no problem in 
dreaming up ST equivalents as needed...after all, there are an 
infinite number of possible permutations to the patterns in which 
glop can be glued onto an actor's face.  

    3. Arc. The time of the show would be crucial to the impact 
of the ST:B5 arc. If set *before* TOS, the whole thing would lead 
towards Kirk, Spock, and then by an ultimate chain of devolution 
towards Janeway; not an inspiring end to work towards. By that 
logic, it would be better if ST:B5 were set in the *future* of 
the Trek universe. But that would basically require a major 
collapse in numerous alien governments, and serious alterations 
in the balance of power. Do-able, but it's unlikely that 
Paramount's pinhead execs would allow JMS to risk the franchise 
that way.  

    And there we come to a key point. There's no *way* that JMS 
would be allowed to stop at a mere five years. As soon as it 
became obvious to the studio that he was really writing the whole 
thing to *end* in five years, he'd be forced out of the show and 
ST:B5 would be handed over to a top-notch stable of proven, 
dependable, lobotomized Trek writers.  

    Okay, there. I've amused myself. :-)

								-->Pete
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maranci     pmaranci at tiac.net / maranci at tiac.net       Malden, MA
Editor, Interregnum RPG/science-fantasy APA/magazine -- email for info.
Interregnum World Wide Web home page: http://www.tiac.net/users/maranci

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From: denebeim at deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
Lines: 24

In article <4qtdgl$3s1 at news-old.tiac.net>,
Peter Maranci <pmaranci at tiac.net> wrote:

>    It seems unlikely that anyone would expect Paramount to 
>produce anything other than a Trek-related SF show for television 
>(certainly back then, anyway). If JMS pitched Babylon 5 to 
>Paramount's pinhead execs, did he present it as "Star Trek: 
>Babylon 5"?  

No.  As a matter of fact his response from Paramount (before they
lifted it to make DS9) was "We've already got a science fiction
series"  (That BTW was precisely what CBS told Gene Roddenberry about
ST when they had lost in space)

Wasn't a wise move in either case.

Jay
-- 
* Jay Denebeim, Moderator, rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated   *
* newsgroup submission address:   rastb5 at solon.com             *
* moderator contact address:      rastb5-request at solon.com     *
* personal contact address:       denebeim at deepthot.cary.nc.us *

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From: jmsatb5 at aol.com (Jms at B5)
Lines: 13

"If JMS pitched Babylon 5 to Paramount's pinhead execs, did he present it
as "Star Trek: Babylon 5"?  

Negative.  It was always intended as an outside non ST series.  It
couldn't be done in the ST universe.  Never even broached by anyone on
either side.

 jms

-***
-*** B5JMS SUBSCRIBERS: Messages to this list come from various sources.
-*** Replies to them, automatically to go the maintainer of this list
-*** <b5jms-owner at majordomo.cs.columbia.edu>.  If you want to reply to
-*** someone else, make sure the "To:" header line is correctly set.