ATTN: JMS and Any Other Interested Parties, Season Three

[B5JMS Poster]

Subject: ATTN: JMS and Any Other Interested Parties, Season Three
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 No. | DATE        |  FROM
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+  1: May 27, 1996: a024781t at bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us (Charles J Walther)
+  2: May 27, 1996: meqsmf at computer.net
*  3: May 28, 1996: jmsatb5 at aol.com (Jms at B5)

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From: a024781t at bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us (Charles J Walther)
Lines: 242

(* Spoilers for War Without End Part Two  *)


























Spoilers are in present here, but not in the first part of my message. You 
are hereby warned.



We have now come to the end of season 3. Yes, I know there are
five more new episodes, but anything shown after October 1, I
consider to be in the next season. I will admit that we have
ended this year better than we had last year. No lingering
questions that we had to think about for months. I think is more
by dumb luck than an actually plan by the WB since they seem
adverse to show season three episodes in season three. All in
all, I liked the season, but I have some fairly large problems
with the series. I did not like this season as much as last
year's. I think the stories were not written as tightly as they
were in the past. There were situations that simply made no
sense. I also don't like how the series is presented. Granted,
Joe has no control of the latter, but I am getting really pissed
off at the WB. I want to air my complaints of the way they handle
this show and on the show itself.

Problems with the WB

B-5 has more commercials in it than any other syndicated show I
have looked at. I know this for a fact, because I went out and
timed several. I compared the number minutes during the hour in
which commercial are on. For Hercules and Xena, this comes out to
be slightly over 15 min. For Land's End, I got the same figure.
For B-5, the time is greater than 17 minutes. During the second
commercial break in the show (the one after the intro is the
first) I timed commercials being shown for over 5 min in
duration. To be blunt Joe, your show is screwing up the
continuity of the commercials. I mean how can I concentrate on
just how many times I have seen the same boring Lexus commercial,
or the mindless M & M candy commercial. Heaven forbid, how can I
remember that you can snow ski and chew gum at the same time
(Lots of snow in Florida), if you keep putting that damn story up
on the screen.

To be honest, after five minutes of this mental time out, I find
it harder to get back into the groove of the show. I also find
the show A LOT less interesting to view. I know the commercials
pay the bills, but God so many of them I find insulting to my
intelligence. Do we really have to over sell TVs that much to
float this show. I am sorry, but other and more popular shows
that B-5 have less commercials. I take it the WB is more
interesting in the cash cow rather than what donkey is carrying it.

I got other beefs about the Frog network (Good name by the way).
I am getting kinda of mad that we keep the last few episodess for
the following year. I don't know of any other show that doesn't
show all it's season X episodes in season x. This thing about
November sweeps lead in I find to be a bunch of crap. I want to
see what is going on, now, not four months from now By keeping
things back, the WB tells me that they don't care about the fan.
They don't care about the viewer. All they care about is the damn
money, and screw the rest of you clowns who are in reality paying
us for the privilege of seeing how bad we can screw you. You want
videos, screw you, we don't want to make them. You want to see
season one eps, screw you, because we think you are too stupid to
know the difference between Michael O'Hare and Bruce Boxlitener.
You want to see the reruns in order that will maintain series
continuity, screw you, we will show the more recent shows first,
then hit you with the older eps to make it harder on you to keep
track. In short. I get the indelible, implacable, impression that
the WB doesn't give a damn about the viewer, or the fan, or
whether I watch the show or not. I get the feeling we only got
the fan club up after half the series was over only because they
could milk you clowns for even more money. When are you viewers
going to get the hint, THE FANS DON"T MATTER to the frog.

Chuck, you're wrong, you say. In the real world, the show's
purpose is to make money, not keep fans happy. Ok maybe that is
true, but I don't like being made to feel like a worthless patsy.
Is it just me or does it make sense to anyone else that maybe,
just maybe, if we increase interest in the series, we might get
more fans, so we could get higher rating, so we can make more
money on the mindless idiotic commercials we shove down your
throat for almost a third of the hour the show is own. Maybe I
just don't understand the TV business. I don't know, maybe we
should change the network logo from kiss the frog, to kiss our
ass. 


Ok so much for the stuff that Joe has no control over. what
follows may be spoiler for some people, so be warned. I leave the
usual 22 spaces of boring blank space to protect you people from
yourselves.






















There.
I got a few general grips about the series. what follows is my
opinion. I will admit up front that I have NO direct first hand
knowledge of the show, the cast, the staff, the production or
JMS's life, nor do I really want any. 


I don't really remember seeing plot holes in this show until just
before season 2 ended. In fact the reason I got turned on to B-5
was after I got tired of the magic wand theory of script writing
I had seen in Star Trek. Here are just a few of the ones that
really hit me.

Did Sheridan and Ivanova really think that Vir was killing off
thousands of Narn while he was on Minbar. Hey, this is Vir, not
Josef Mengele we are talking about. Did they really think it was
necessary to drag this all out in front of Londo instead of
privately. Looks like a lot or Vir's good work, went right down
the tubes on that one. It didn't seem to bother Sheridan and
Ivanova a bit that they had screwed up the escape route and maybe
put Vir's life in danger.

Why didn't the Shadows get on the horn and start screaming that
they just made sushi out of Kosh. The alliance is new, shaky,
unsure of Sheridan. What a great time to screw over everyone by
announcing we killed Kosh. What do we do instead. We keep out
mouths shut and let our enemies organize more against us. Makes
sense to me.......NOT. 

Was it just me, or did anyone stop to think just how Bester got
to B-5 space in a Starfury without using the local jumpgate. Who
brought him and more important, why? Then out of the hundred
popcycles in the Shadow transport, we just happen to pick the one
guiding light in Bester's life. God, aren't we lucky.

The ship to ship battle scenes made no tactical sense to me in
the least. Myself and my friend Andrea have posted at length
about this before. I will not go into three pages of details.
Yes, the special effects are really good, I mean first rate
stuff. What I see, however, made no sense to me. Tactically. that
wasn't a battle, it was a mindless brawl.

We have a wonderful security system on B-5. Our monitors will
show you everything, except a twenty foot long fusion reactor
trigger that was put in the most sensitive part of the station by
a certified nut case. The idea that something that big can get
put there and remain unnoticed for hours, maybe days I find
incredible. 


Ok those are just the ones that came to mind without doing any
episode review. There were lots more. There is something else I
noticed The scripts seem looser, the characters more stupid than
before. We are depending on character stupidity more to advance
the plot than on characters using their heads. Two classic
examples of this is Londo actually thinking that Mr. Morden had
no hand in offing his paramour. Another is the fact that we are
going to let a nut case run around in the station with a three
foot pig sticker become some clown in a Ranger uniform says it's
a good idea. That ranger uniform is not going to mean dip to me
if I am in security. Try this trick in an airport and see what
happens.

Joe, I am sorry, but I really think the scripts were better in
season two. The characters acted smarter, and in their own self
interest. The plot proceeded in a tight concise manner. I really
liked it. 

If you ask me why this is happening, the only one who can give us
the correct answer is one J. Michael Stracznski. I am only
guessing and going on my gut feeling at this point. I get the
feeling that the polishing rewrites on the script were just not
done. The scripts looked hurried. Joe wrote them all, Joe
produced them all, Joe made the show go. Great, I am impressed
that Joe wrote all 22 episodes. I am impressed that he has
managed to get this thing on the air to begin with. I am not
impressed with the final product this year. Yea, lots of things
happened, but why did they happen, and how did they happen. The
devil is in the detail my profs used to say. I think the show was
better when Joe was doing about 8-10 scrips and then reworking
the other ones like hell. 

Now what is the point to this diatribe. Actually, the only point
is for me to air by beefs. I am not saying that I am never going
to watch the show again. Compared to the crap that passes for
entertainment on the tube, Joe should get a Nobel Prize. I do
think the show can be made better, and should be made better. I
think the rerun schedule should be compiled with the idea on
bringing new viewers up to date on what is going on, since the WB
won't release any tapes to rent. Finally I believe the stories
should hold together better with few gaping plot hole. I want to
see this thing in syndication for as long as Star Trek, the
original, has been around. 

Ok, so much for my comments. I now open to floor to JMS or anyone
else who wanted to shoot back. 


--
Send Replies to the Following

Charles J. Walther
a024781t at bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us



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From: meqsmf at computer.net
Lines: 76

Spoilers for up to WWE II follow:





















>  Why didn't the Shadows get on the horn and start screaming that
>  they just made sushi out of Kosh. The alliance is new, shaky,
>  unsure of Sheridan. What a great time to screw over everyone by
>  announcing we killed Kosh. What do we do instead. We keep out
>  mouths shut and let our enemies organize more against us. Makes
>  sense to me.......NOT. 
>  
Assumes Human logic - I do not think that this is really a plot hole, as such, more like a plot weakness.

>  Was it just me, or did anyone stop to think just how Bester got
>  to B-5 space in a Starfury without using the local jumpgate. Who
>  brought him and more important, why? Then out of the hundred
>  popcycles in the Shadow transport, we just happen to pick the one
>  guiding light in Bester's life. God, aren't we lucky.
>  
Have a good point here - I would think that anybody opening a jump gate with Starfury operational range
would alert B5 that a jumpgate had been opened. However, I must note that this item has come up
before in the series (the probe episode). Suspect that there is a limitation on the distance which a jumpgate
can be sucessfully detected which is less than the operational range of a Starfury. 

>  The ship to ship battle scenes made no tactical sense to me in
>  the least. Myself and my friend Andrea have posted at length
>  about this before. I will not go into three pages of details.
>  Yes, the special effects are really good, I mean first rate
>  stuff. What I see, however, made no sense to me. Tactically. that
>  wasn't a battle, it was a mindless brawl.
>  
As to battles - no (battle) plan survives first contact with the Enemy (Clauswitz) - with no order book or rules for engagement 
 I would not expect better from a disorganized mess such as what occured in "Severed Dreams". 
Suspect that the casusalties were much too light from such a engagement.

>  We have a wonderful security system on B-5. Our monitors will
>  show you everything, except a twenty foot long fusion reactor
>  trigger that was put in the most sensitive part of the station by
>  a certified nut case. The idea that something that big can get
>  put there and remain unnoticed for hours, maybe days I find
>  incredible. 
>  
Half life of cameras exposed to radation might have something to do with it (currently very short); 
also remember that character was authorized for the reactor core.

While I have very similar gripes about the WB scheduling I understand that for most shows, including 
network shows viewing order is erratic, to say the least. 

However, I have big gripe about the number of commericals in the show and have posted previously that
I feel that at least some stations are cutting episode time to add more commericals. However; I note that 
the poster here suggests that approximately 2 minutes are being added which is consistent with the amount of
time which I feel is apparently cut out from the show by the local station(s). The question then, is WB adding the commericals
after product delivery or are local stations adding commericals. 

Scott




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From: jmsatb5 at aol.com (Jms at B5)
Lines: 93

Okay, some responses.  I trust you will allow me to be as blunt in my
replies as you were in raising the points initially.

Regarding the Warner Bros. concerns...there really isn't much I can add to
what you said, and certainly nothing there I'd choose to contradict.  So
we'll take that one as read and move on.

To the creative issues:

"Did Sheridan and Ivanova really think that Vir was killing off thousands
of Narn while he was on Minbar. Hey, this is Vir, not Josef Mengele we are
talking about. Did they really think it was necessary to drag this all out
in front of Londo instead of privately."

No, they didn't think he was doing it personally, only that he was
expediting the transfer of Narns offworld for this purpose.  You think
someone like Vir could not do this.  But most of the Nazis who send Jews
to die weren't Josef Mengele, carving into bodies...they processed numbers
from behind wire-framed glasses, and were quiet, sometimes even cheerful
individuals with wonderful wives and children.  The greatest evil can
often wear a benign, smiling, affable face.  And remember, people can
change on this show.  You look at Londo in season one, is this someone you
could buy taking part in the bombing of the Narn homeworld and the death
of millions of Narns?  Yet that's what happened.  And their belief was
that it was probably Londo who was behind it all...it's Londo to whom
Ivanova expressed her outrage, not Vir, who she figured was probably being
pushed into it at his behest, so logically she *would* take this right to
Londo.  She figured, as you did, that Vir certainly wouldn't think of this
on his own, but Londo could (and says so in the episode).

"Why didn't the Shadows get on the horn and start screaming that they just
made sushi out of Kosh. The alliance is new, shaky, unsure of Sheridan.
What a great time to screw over everyone by announcing we killed Kosh."

Because for starters, it's bad form.  If you kill somebody else's
ambassador, that's not the sort of thing you proclaim proudly, it tends to
bounce badly back onto you.  Also, this was primarily a personal
situation.  There's more, but it's a bit further down the road story-wise
that might help clarify this further.

"Was it just me, or did anyone stop to think just how Bester got to B-5
space in a Starfury without using the local jumpgate. Who brought him and
more important, why?"

He simply tagged along with an Earthforce jump-capable ship, and asked to
be dropped off.  I considered bringing this up, but it was just dead
exposition; it would be easy enough to do.

"Then out of the hundred popcycles in the Shadow transport, we just happen
to pick the one guiding light in Bester's life. God, aren't we lucky."

Yes, and how amazingly coincidental that of all the women around, Oedipus
would just happen to murder his father and marry his mother without
knowing he had done so.  Okay, it was a coincidence, I'll own up to that. 
We have very, very few of them on the show.  And the reason the word
"coincidence" exists, and the word "synchronicity," is that sometimes
stuff like that does happen.  You ever pick up the phone to call somebody
and have that person already on the line calling you?  You ever think of
someone you haven't seen in a while and run into them the next day?  It
happens.  As long as it doesn't happen to excess, and become a venue for
sloppy storytelling every week, it doesn't bother me, it's a legitimate
plot device.

And you misspelled popcicle.

"We have a wonderful security system on B-5. Our monitors will show you
everything, except a twenty foot long fusion reactor trigger that was put
in the most sensitive part of the station by a certified nut case."

Show me where we ever said our monitors "will show you everything."  They
don't, they can't, and never have.  This is a city, and a quarter million
people live here.  It would be impossible to monitor it all.  As for the
fusion reactor...that was a ten foot object attached to a place where only
station maintenance people went, which was his job.  He was cleared for
that kind of access, and until/unless the device was activated, it was
electronically dormant, you wouldn't notice anything.  Nor did it attract
much attention.  Even though they *knew* something was there, they STILL
had to look long and hard to find it, because it had been made to look
just like everything else in the area.  

And it's not like everybody *knew* he was a "certified nutcase" at the
time.  He didn't have an identicard that said CERTIFIED NUTCASE on it.  He
worked in station maintenance.  Nobody knew Tim McVeigh was a nut until he
blew up a building.  Nobody knew that quiet little man in Boston was out
strangling women in his spare time.

You seem to operate in blacks and whites; this show is about greys.  And
most of the concerns you raised are, I think, easily addressed.


 jms


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