The Death of Civility

[B5JMS Poster]

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From: rockc at panix.com (Morgana)
Date: 19 May 1998 23:22:39 -0600
Lines: 118

On 19 May 1998 00:01:04 -0600, Troy-Heagy at erols.com wrote:

Who was it that said..... "fighting for civility is like fu*king for
virginity?"   Actually I think they said "peace" ...but this fits so
snuggly....  

>In article <355CA23D.340 at tyler.net>,
>  wschmidt at tyler.net wrote:
>>
>> You still kind of miss the point - the point was to take JMS' own
>> words and apply them to JMS' project.  Which was cruel but clever,
>> especially since the original argument which JMS made was very good.
>> If JMS hadn't done his imitation of a nuclear detonator, we would
>> probably be laughing about the people who had taken it seriously
>> now.

You know something?   Given Cronan's well documented opinion of S5, I
wonder if JMS would have gone ballistic if it was anyone else but him
who had submitted that post?  

>
>
>I've noticed that JMS is becoming "darker" lately as the show nears its end
>and he prepares to disappear from the net.  I really can't blame him.  He has
>been attacked online by self-righteous critics that wouldn't know a good story
>if it ran over them... he has been insulted... trojaned... threatened with
>death... and all because he decided to come online and answer some fan
>questions.

Agreed, but he should have been aware that by exposing himself to the
Usenet audience it wasn't going to be all sweetness and light.  Take a
look around, Usenet is a kooky place.  Everyone who posts here takes a
chance that someone will eventually take offense at something you've
said.  Let's not kid ourselves Troy, the man is no fool, he knew what
he was getting into.  He has defended himself admirably on many
occasions. 


>
>Unfortunately, a few cold-hearted, small-minded, even psychotic people have
>made that journey online a personal hell for JMS. 

Right.  But wasn't the moderated group was formed to protect him from
the trolls, the heartless bastards and the psychopaths?   I thought
that was part and parcel of their charter.  While it's been a bumpy
ride for him, at least 75% of the time most of the posts are running
in his favor.  Those aren't bad numbers.  I think the other 25% are
the independent thinkers, the trolls and the what-have-yous.  

Having said that, who is going to protect us when he decides to flame
someone like he did Cronan?  As a fan of his work I was appalled  to
read his reaction.  Are you somehow defending it?


> I hear people say, "Well,
>if you can't take the heat, don't come here."  Yeah, well, it shouldn't be
>that way.  

Yeah, but we humans aren't a kindly lot and there's centuries of
history to back that up.  Hell, just pick up your daily newspaper.  It
ain't pretty out here.  Besides, he's got an advantage many of us
don't.  He's a writer and this is a text based medium.  This is his
ballywick..he should kick much ass!


>Rather than chase off the good-natured, civilized folks of the net,
>we should attack those who seek to destroy it with their petty-minded
>vendettas and ascerbic personalities. 

We should all become the thing we despise?  That doesn't sound like
much of an option to me.  I'm for people policing themselves.  I'm not
going to do it for them.  First Amendment rights and all that.  I'm
also not comfortable with the idea of subscribing to an Orwellian
utopia where we all think alike.  

Frankly, I enjoy reading the posts of some of the independent thinkers
here which include, Gharlane, Cronan, V,  WWS, Captain Infinity, just
to name a few.  People who like the show but are willing to offer
constructive criticism and challenge JMS when they feel the show is
getting sloppy or cutting corners.  Sometimes the non-conformists and
the assholes speak the truth.  People should have the right to choose
and decide for themselves whether or not they want to hear what these
folks have to say.  Take the bitter with the sweet. 

> Let those who corrupt the peace of the
>net be forced offline, so that we adult-minded folks can continue to converse
>in civility.


New Usenet Order?  

Sounds like you're advocating the creation of an even bigger problem.
Btw,  how do you propose to force the people *you* decide are unworthy
off the net?  Another mod group perhaps? Isn't it more "adult-minded"
to be able to talk freely? 

Here's a novel idea.  Once you've identified the people you consider
trolls, why not just killfile them and save yourself the aggravation?
The same principle applies here as it does out there you know.  If you
don't like what some people have to say, ignore them. 

Finally, JMS is a good writer and has given me hours of incredible
entertainment.  However,  I'm not willing to infringe on the rights of
others to freely express themselves just to protect him from the
verbal barbs and personal slights that we all endure on a daily basis.
Just remember,  there's always that killfile option. 

Come to think of it...I need some adult minded activity before I
sleep.  It's the only adult minded thing I take seriously.  


Peace.
Morgana. 






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From: jmsatb5 at aol.com (Jms at B5)
Date: 20 May 1998 09:39:05 -0600
Lines: 95

>Here's a novel idea.  Once you've identified the people you consider
>trolls, why not just killfile them and save yourself the aggravation?
>The same principle applies here as it does out there you know.  If you
>don't like what some people have to say, ignore them. 
> I'm not willing to infringe on the rights of
>others to freely express themselves just to protect him from the
>verbal barbs and personal slights that we all endure on a daily basis.
>Just remember,  there's always that killfile option. 

Okay, Morgana, let's try an experiment.

Let's say that somebody logging on under a pseudonym posts a message,
identifying you by your true and complete name, and says that you have a
criminal record for child molestation.  Since you have killfiled that person,
that information zips on out there, unchallenged, until it gains common
currency...and begins to come back at you from other sources.

So by your lights, that's okay?  It wouldn't bother you in the least?  That's a
good thing?

It's one thing to killfile somebody because you don't care about their
comments, their opinions...but what these people tend to have their opinions
about...is me: personally, creatively, even legally.  

And the scenario I posted a second ago, incidentally, is a valid one.  I have
had people impersonating me on pedophile areas, another charged me with murder
on another national system; yet another briefly suggested that I should be
murdered.

It's real easy when it's just a subject being discussed; but when it's you, by
name, it ain't so easy, Morgana.  

So I suspect that if the above scenario took place, you would not be quite so
sanguine about it.

 jms

(jmsatb5 at aol.com)
B5 Official Fan Club at:
http://www.thestation.com