JMS on CompuServe (Jan 29, 1999) *POSSIBLE SPOILERS* (3/5)
bbarrett at johndelenn.com
bbarrett at johndelenn.com
Sat Jan 30 01:07:45 EST 1999
[ Continued from previous section -- BB ]
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WARNING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The following posts may contain SPOILERS for
upcoming Babylon 5 episodes.
Continue at your own risk.
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THE FOLLOWING MATERIAL IS THE COPYRIGHT OF THE
RESPECTIVE MESSAGE AUTHORS AND CANNOT BE
REPRODUCED IN ANY FORM WITHOUT THE EXPRESSED
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Note that JMS has expressed his public permission
that all of his messages may be reproduced freely.
I give permission for my summaries to be reposted in
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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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[ Summary of subjects in this section: ]
Sb: #55224-#Re: IMage Laserdisks
Sb: #55303-#Re: IMage Laserdisks
Sb: #56135-#Re: IMage Laserdisks
Sb: #56227-#Re: IMage Laserdisks
Sb: #56306-#Re: IMage Laserdisks
Sb: #56717-#Re: IMage Laserdisks
#: 55224 S8/Bab 5 Merchandise
22-Dec-98 18:32:07
Sb: #55150-#Re: IMage Laserdisks
Fm: JOSEPH DEMARTINO
Yes, it does look good - but alas, it isn't widescreen. *sigh* Any word on a
possible DVD release? As much as I love this show, and want to own it, I
can't afford to buy the whole thing two or three times - so I am NOT going
for the VHS tapes or even the LDs. The Friday after Thanksgiving I started
rewatching the series with "ItB" (LD) followed by the first WB VHS set, then
moving on to the shows I taped off TNT (which have a few gaps.) Four or five
episodes a night, usually, for several weeks at a stretch. And I discovered
something.
Even more than the weekday strip, *this* is the way the series was made to be
watched. Without interruptions, without a 24 hour (still less 7 day or
several month) gap between episodes it becomes a whole different experience.
And the earliest episodes look different when watched again after each season.
This is a staggering achievement, especially within the confines of American
commercial television. I don't think anyone yet realizes what you've done
here. And when they get the first dim glimmers of the idea, and try to copy
it, they'll only see the surface mechanics of a continuing story and never see
the sheer *work* that went into crafting almost every line and gesture of each
of each show so that it could pay off two or three years down the road.
This is the first series I've ever seen that *can't* be fully appreciated the
first time through. Reruns aren't a commercial byproduct of this show, in a
curious way they are the point. I'm finally starting to see what you meant
long ago when you mentioned a "four dimensional hologram." You've done it. I
look forward to going losing myself in this world at least once a year for
many years to come, as I usually lose myself in Middle Earth for a week or so,
around the time the leaves change. (Well, other places. Here in Florida the
only colors that change when fall approaches are the ones on the license
plates. <g>)
I also look forward to "Crusade" and to "A Call to Arms" (the last Babylon 5
adventure - I'm glad we're getting one more after "SiL") I'm sorry you won't
be around as much as you were during "B5", but can understand your reasons.
Since I really *couldn't* write anything after "SiL" until so much time had
passed that others had said everything I could have about the finale, I wanted
to tell you how much the show as a whole has meant to me. Ya done good. I
hope the thing runs as long as "I Love Lucy" (Wouldn't it be a gas if a
character in the best SF series of a forty years from now could say, "We'd
make a good team, like Sheridan and Delenn" and have everyone recognize the
reference?)
All the best,
Joe
#: 55279 S8/Bab 5 Merchandise
23-Dec-98 18:04:13
Sb: #55224-#Re: IMage Laserdisks
Fm: J. MICHAEL STRACZYNSKI
"Even more than the weekday strip, *this* is the way the series was made to be
watched. Without interruptions, without a 24 hour (still less 7 day or
several month) gap between episodes it becomes a whole different experience.
And the earliest episodes look different when watched again after each
season."
This is pretty much the reaction of everyone who's sat and watched the
show through in a concentrated form; it's a whole other show. It's all
contiguous, even when it looks like it ain't, and the artificial breaks were
pretty much ignored in the writing.
"This is a staggering achievement, especially within the confines of American
commercial television. I don't think anyone yet realizes what you've done
here. And when they get the first dim glimmers of the idea, and try to copy
it, they'll only see the surface mechanics of a continuing story and never see
the sheer *work* that went into crafting almost every line and gesture of each
of each show so that it could pay off two or three years down the road."
I'm okay with that; I always said that B5 wouldn't really be appreciated
for what it is for several years down the line. This is a part of the reason
for that. It has to run through several times, and become a part of the
general consciousness, and be perceived for what it is.
"This is the first series I've ever seen that *can't* be fully appreciated the
first time through. Reruns aren't a commercial byproduct of this show, in a
curious way they are the point. I'm finally starting to see what you meant
long ago when you mentioned a "four dimensional hologram.""
(Actually the term was holographic storytelling, but the point obtains.)
Usually, reruns are considered an aftermarket...here the show was written with
that in mind to some extent. It was written for the long haul, so to speak.
I'll be very curious to see the perception of the show ten years hence.
jms
#: 55303 S8/Bab 5 Merchandise
24-Dec-98 08:09:06
Sb: #55279-#Re: IMage Laserdisks
Fm: JOSEPH DEMARTINO
Thanks for the response. I'm glad people are "getting it."
>> " I'm finally starting to see what you meant long ago when you mentioned a
'four dimensional hologram.'"
>> (Actually the term was holographic storytelling, but the point obtains.)
That's what I get for relying on my memory. Still, if you consider time as
the fourth dimension, my mangled version fits.
I suppose we'll just have to wait and hope and pester Warner Brothers
regarding a possible DVD release, since you seem to be silent on that point.
(Unless I've missed a response to that question elsewhere.) Just saw the
great job the studio did on the restored "My Fair Lady" The restorers'
comments about how much of the source material was lost during the years that
CBS had custody worries me. The studios seem reluctant to spend a few tens of
thousands of dollars to adequately *preseve* the films they make, and only
rarely spend the millions needed to restore them. How much less likely are
they to care about preserving something as ephemeral as a TV show? I hope you
have been able to take steps to ensure that "B5" remains intact and available
to future generations. One has to wonder, and worry, when dealing with an
industry willing to let masterpieces like "Spartacus", "Lawrence of Arabia"
and "My Fair Lady" come within an inch of being lost forever.
Regards,
Joe
#: 56125 S8/Bab 5 Merchandise
04-Jan-99 13:36:13
Sb: #55303-#Re: IMage Laserdisks
Fm: J. MICHAEL STRACZYNSKI
This was a problem on the pilot; WB stored the film and negatives, and
rats got to a number of film cans, chewing through prints and negatives alike.
As we found when we went to re-edit, some takes are gone forever.
jms
#: 56135 S8/Bab 5 Merchandise
04-Jan-99 15:02:07
Sb: #56125-#Re: IMage Laserdisks
Fm: JOSEPH DEMARTINO
Message text written by J. Michael Straczynski
> This was a problem on the pilot; WB stored the film and negatives, and rats
got to a number of film cans, chewing through prints and negatives alike. As
we found when we went to re-edit, some takes are gone forever.<
I remember reading about that at the time in some of your posts quoted by the
Lurker's Guide. You would think *greed* would would make the studios more
careful about these things, if nothing else. They can't sell what they don't
have, and at some point their entire libraries will have disappeared through
neglect. I just received my Columbia House copy of the pilot, which I believe
is the original version. Am looking forward to watching it and comparing it
to the "revised edition." "ACtA" was outstanding, BTW. The 'net fora are
full of complaints about the music, which I don't understand, but even the
anti-Chen zealots ("it ruined the whole movie for me") have had to admit that
it was well written and acted. A surprising number of people on both the WB
and TNT (!) sites were not aware that a follow-up series was in the offing.
Several asked if B5 had been renewed for another season. Another wanted to
know if there was going to be a new show with Sheridan commanding the
Excalibur. (Oh, and there was the one guy who asked how Sheridan came back
from the dead. I guess some people pay even less attention than others.)
For the most part I didn't *notice* the music, which is the way I think it
should be for a movie score. If I'm paying that much attention to the music,
either the story isn't very good or the music is distractingly bad. I think
movie music should be so seemlessly woven into the rest of the storytelling
that it should be "invisible" as it were, except in during "set piece" scenes
or establishinig shots where it is meant to be in the forefront. (The launch
sequence in "Apollo 13" comes to mind.) Of course, I think the same way about
film direction, which puts me in the minority. If I'm taken so far out of the
story that I notice how pretty a shot is or how interesting an angle is,
somebody's doing something wrong. When the "ACtA" score was at the forefront
by design, I heard nothing to complain about. Of course, you've been through
this before. I seem to recall a lot of people complaining when Christopher
Franke replaced the composer for the pilot. I don't doubt that a lot of the
people screaming loudest now are the very ones who complained about Franke
when he started. Isn't it reassuring to know that some things *never* change?
<g>
Regards,
Joe
#: 56216 S8/Bab 5 Merchandise
04-Jan-99 23:06:13
Sb: #56135-#Re: IMage Laserdisks
Fm: J. MICHAEL STRACZYNSKI
I suppose we could've stayed with the safe choice, with Chris, or done a
nice, safe, droning Voyager style score that you don't even notice, but we're
looking to take chances, and that means some people will like what you do,
some won't. Some won't like it because it's different. Neil Gaiman told me
that a number of fans of any form, including his own, say they want something
new and challenging that takes chances...but it they don't like the form of
that chance, they blame you for somehow doing it wrong...and they want the
next new thing to be just like the last thing you did.
I can't tell you the number of people who said "why can't you just do
the John Williams style music instead of this?" Because it's been done, and
it's cliche, and by god we're going to push what's "expected" to try some new
things. Otherwise what the hell's the point?
"Of course, you've been through this before. I seem to recall a lot of people
complaining when Christopher Franke replaced the composer for the pilot. I
don't doubt that a lot of the people screaming loudest now are the very ones
who complained about Franke when he started."
I don't know about the latter, but I can sure confirm the former. And
that's why I sometimes wish the viewer responses were logged as much as my own
have been. When we brought in Chris to replace Stewart Copeland, you can't
*believe* how much email I got from people saying to trash him, fire him, it's
that "euro-trash techno-crap" most called it. "He uses sounds and banging
instead of music," people complained (which he did mainly in the first two
seasons), "it's distracting and it's not appropriate, get rid of him."
But we didn't. I told people to give him time to settle into the show,
and on the other hand to let them get used to a different kind of sound than
what they expected. ("I guess you couldn't afford to hire a real composer
like TNG uses," was another popular line.)
Evan ain't Chris, nor should he be, nor should he *have* to be. He is a
brilliantly talented composer. This is his first shot at a dramatic series,
and as he settles in (as Chris settled in), I think people are going to be as
loyal to what he's doing in Crusade as they were to Chris in B5. He's a
classically trained composer, who threw it all away to come study jazz under
some of the best jazz men in Chicago...washing dishes to support himself when
he had been at the top of his field in China...because he loves music, and
loves to experiment.
In the course of Crusade, we're going to see some places we've never
seen before...and thanks to Evan, we're going to hear some things we've never
heard before. He's a find, and a genuine, fresh talent, and I stand behind
him 100%.
And the people who say they are fans of Chris Franke's should think
twice before doing to him what so many people did so rudely to Chris when he
first came aboard.
jms
#: 56227 S8/Bab 5 Merchandise
05-Jan-99 00:04:01
Sb: #56216-#Re: IMage Laserdisks
Fm: JOSEPH DEMARTINO
Thanks very much for the reply. Requet permission to qoute it in full on the
WB and TNT sites, where I think some of the hotheads really need to see it.
(Interesting note: One post asked "What $@%&# idiot hired this guy, anyway?"
the reply, *not* from me, was "JMS is the $%&# idiot in question. I can list
some places where he is known to lurk if you'd like to tell him what a $%&#
idiot he is to his face.)
Regards,
Joe
#: 56285 S8/Bab 5 Merchandise
05-Jan-99 14:11:06
Sb: #56227-#Re: IMage Laserdisks
Fm: J. MICHAEL STRACZYNSKI
It kind of goes to show you how thin the layer of trust goes...you'd
think by now, after doing 5 years of B5, people would think to cut a little
slack and give a chance, assume that there's an intent here, rather than
saying suddenly I'm an idiot for not putting in the kind of music they
expected.
What's most interesting, and in some ways most galling, is the number of
posts I've seen in the last day or so from people who watched CTA again, and
said, "On second viewing, the music didn't bother me as much, and I kind of
like it in places." Maybe they should've been a little less quick on the
trigger and the condemnation.
As for some of the comments I've seen, basically saying he should be
killed (literally, someone suggested putting a gun to his head and pulling the
trigger) to some *very* xenophobic comments about his being asian and that's
the problem, with *that kind* of music...they do not even merit a reply.
jms
#: 56306 S8/Bab 5 Merchandise
05-Jan-99 15:38:11
Sb: #56285-#Re: IMage Laserdisks
Fm: JOSEPH DEMARTINO
Message text written by J. Michael Straczynski
> As for some of the comments I've seen, basically saying he should be
killed (literally, someone suggested putting a gun to his head and pulling the
trigger) to some *very* xenophobic comments about his being asian and that's
the problem, with *that kind* of music...they do not even merit a reply.<
Yeah, those depressed the hell out of me. I've been out of organized fandom
since before there was an internet (it took "B5" to gradually pull me back in,
I may even go to my first convention in twenty years sometime in '99.) I
guess a part of me still clung to the adolescent notion that fans of this kind
of literature were somehow better and more tolerant than most people. I don't
understand how you can have enough imagination to identify heart and soul with
a Narn, and not use that same imagination to identify with the other human
down the street.
And I think this gets to one of the differences between "Trek" and "B5".
Trek fed that adolescent fan mindset - it says, "Here's the future, and it is
populated by people like you, better, wiser, kinder, more tolerant than your
parents, siblings and teachers. People who are as good as you know in your
heart that you are. Only the bad guys we bring in for an episode and defeat
have any negative qualities." Starfleet is Star Trek fandom, or at least its
own self-image, writ large. B5 shows us a future not only much more like the
real world in general, but the more like world of fandom as it exists, and
that may have mae people uncomfortable. I think that is the real reason a
lot of Trek fans (of whom I am one) never warmed up to B5. It didn't give
them a comfortable future where it turned out THEY WERE RIGHT. Even the great
and noble have *real* flaws in B5, not "cute" ones like impetuousness, and
their flaws have real consequences.
Speaking of consequences: A lot of people are still angry at you, and at the
characters, for ignoring Lyta in "SiL" I've always thought that, in addition
to protecting the mystery of whatever you have in store for her further down
the line, it was perfectly in character for the others. As good and kind and
noble as Sheridan, et al were, they *did* have a blind spot where Lyta was
concerned, they did take her for granted and they often treated her shabbily.
And I, for one, am *glad*. It would have been a cheat if everyone had gotten
all weepy over poor Lyta and how they treated her, even if that reaction would
have tracked with future events. If they'd ever given the matter a second
thought they *wouldn't* have treated her that way in the first place. So, of
course, they aren't aware that they did. A nice reminder for the rest of us
to consider our own actions, and not put *too* much faith in heroes. I guess
what I keep hearing is true. You really *can* write. <vbg>
Regards,
Joe
#: 56375 S8/Bab 5 Merchandise
05-Jan-99 21:56:04
Sb: #56306-#Re: IMage Laserdisks
Fm: J. MICHAEL STRACZYNSKI
Re: Lyta in SiL...okay, if they mentioned Lyta, I'd get nailed for not
mentioning Na'Toth...or Sinclair...or Keffer...or somebody else. You can't do
five minutes of roll call in a TV show. That would be deadly. They each
picked one character to name, because they had a close relationship in some
way with that character. Who among them really had a close relationship with
Lyta? Name me that person. (Not directed at you, just generally.)
Had Zack been there, then yeah, maybe he would've named Lyta (or not,
given what happens with her later). THAT would have been appropriate. But it
would NOT have been appropriate to have her named just because somebody wants
to hear her name called.
The persons named were ones to whom they had an emotional attachment...
Vir to Londo, Garibaldi to G'Kar, Ivanova to Marcus, Sheridan to Londo, Delenn
to Lennier. Lyta did not have that connection to anyone at that table that
would be on an equal footing.
jms
[ Summary: "Nobody here knows me from adam, but I'm a musician, and Chen
has *got it.*" ]
#: 56803 S8/Bab 5 Merchandise
08-Jan-99 14:18:12
Sb: #56717-#Re: IMage Laserdisks
Fm: J. MICHAEL STRACZYNSKI
I couldn't agree more.
We (John Copeland and I) just finished designing and building the main
title for CRUSADE...and it may be the best one we've done to date.
jms
[ Continued in next section -- BB ]
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