[B5JMS] from jms: too damned much stuff
b5jms at mail.fsl.cs.sunysb.edu
b5jms at mail.fsl.cs.sunysb.edu
Sun May 15 06:12:48 EDT 2005
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From: jmsatb5 at aol.com
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 16:11:29 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 90
Okay. That's it. I give up.
Over the last few days, I've been trying to sort through the tons of
boxes that have for the most part been sitting in storage for the last
several years to try and find space for all this stuff, and there just
isn't any. The floors are wall-to-wall with boxes, crates, palletes,
you name it, the detritus of decades of making shows and writing comics
and being a pack-rack. It has literally grown to overflow two rental
storage facilities.
I have reached the point best expressed by Oscar Wilde's last words:
"Either that wallpaper goes, or I do."
There's just no room, and I'm going insane.
So I'm going to have a yard sale.
Now, understand, the majority of this stuff will never leaving my
hands, and for those I have set aside places here at the house...the
statue of the B5 station that sat for five years on the desk of every
commanding officer on B5...the actual prop Book of G'Kar...a number of
props and bits of memorabilia that have honored places here.
But a lot of the rest is going to go out the door, because either that
wallpaper goes, or...well, you get the idea.
It's going to be kind of a JMS retrospective in some ways, because as I
said, this stuff covers decades...from memorabilia and storyboards for
the Ghostbusters, He-Man and Captain Power series, original scripts
from Twilight Zone and Murder, She Wrote...but the bulk of it is B5
stuff.
There are the actual script books I used during production, into which
I shoved the script I was working on, the breakdowns, shooting
schedules, any storyboards that were needed...the whole thing, in one
book per episode, some of which still have my original notations.
There are episodic dailies tapes, with takes and bits not previously
seen anywhere, posters, publicity material, a ton of stuff.
Props from the show, from my personal collection, where I have doubles
or just no place for them anymore.
(One of the things I'm letting go traces back to the pilot. Not sure
if the show would ever actually go, I paid the wardrobe department to
make me a B5 captain's uniform. I know, I know, I'm the ultimate geek,
but there you are. Suffice to say given the passage of time and
calories, there's no way on god's green earth that that uniform is ever
going to fit. Not that I ever wore it past the initial fitting, but
for sure it ain't gonna happen now. So that's on its way out.)
Another prime item is going to be one of two huge original art pieces
that the late Peter Ledger did for me to help sell B5 itself, big,
elaborate paintings, signed by Peter. The one I won't sell is the
first painting of the B5 station itself from the outside; the one I
just don't have room for is the very first visualization/painting of
the Garden area, with the core shuttle, folks floating around, and in
the bar, a fight breaking out between humans and aliens, with an early
version of Garibaldi in the thick of it.
There's caps, and a disco-style prototype of a B5 crew jacket, a few of
the original blue key B5 symbol t-shirts made up before we did the
pilot and given out at a couple of conventions, an assortment of
souvenirs and some truly, truly weird shit, some of which nobody's ever
heard of before, let alone seen.
I'm still holding on to about 75% of the stuff, but the other 25% has
got to go.
So starting sometime probably next week, the week of the 11th, and from
time to time over the next month or so, keep an eye on Ebay. (I'm
playing with the idea of doing this chronologically, from the earliest
stuff to the latter stuff, but I don't know if I'm disciplined enough
for that.) I likely won't put this stuff up every day, only when and
as I think of it. So you may have days pass with nothing, then a day
when four or five items go up. The Ebay user ID is babylon5auctions.
Once I've cleared out enough room to actually see the floor again, the
auctions will stop and that user ID will go away.
Let the games begin.
jms
(Message content copyright (c) 2005
by Synthetic Worlds, Ltd.
Permission to reprint specifically
denied to SFX Magazine)
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From: Wendy of NJ <voxwoman at gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 18:56:11 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 25
On Fri, 13 May 2005 18:40:36 +0000 (UTC), Oron Port
<zoraxe22 at netscape.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 13 May 2005 11:13:30 +0000 (UTC), Jan <janmschroeder at aol.com>
>wrote:
>
>>And the winner in the Unnofficial Guessing Game for the Winning Bid on the PPG
>>is.....
>>
>>me. The PPG sold for $10,400.00 and my guess was $10,450.00
>>
>>I think if JMS does mor auctions, next time I'll pick a script or tape. Those
>>really had a range in this round.
>>
>>Jan
>>
>
>Looks like it's 20kitties again. So this gets my hopes up that we a
>dealing with a collector, and not just one who will shred the items.
20kitties and filmwelt-berlin kinda cleaned up on this round.
-Wendy
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From: Jan <janmschroeder at aol.com>
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 20:50:06 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 35
In article <jut981dfgljr0ff9uqm41gormgmcar00ef at 4ax.com>, Wendy of NJ says...
>
>On Fri, 13 May 2005 18:40:36 +0000 (UTC), Oron Port
><zoraxe22 at netscape.net> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 13 May 2005 11:13:30 +0000 (UTC), Jan <janmschroeder at aol.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>And the winner in the Unnofficial Guessing Game for the Winning Bid on the PPG
>>>is.....
>>>
>>>me. The PPG sold for $10,400.00 and my guess was $10,450.00
>>>
>>>I think if JMS does mor auctions, next time I'll pick a script or tape. Those
>>>really had a range in this round.
>>>
>>>Jan
>>>
>>
>>Looks like it's 20kitties again. So this gets my hopes up that we a
>>dealing with a collector, and not just one who will shred the items.
>
>20kitties and filmwelt-berlin kinda cleaned up on this round.
>
>-Wendy
It's interesting to see how people value things. To me, the Line Medal and
Ledger painting were the ones that I'd've paid the big bucks for. And
re-reading my post above again, there's a word missing. It should have been
'Next time I'll *try* to pick up a script'. Big difference!
Jan
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From: Paul Harper <paul at harper.net>
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 22:51:59 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 29
On Fri, 13 May 2005 20:50:06 +0000 (UTC), Jan <janmschroeder at aol.com>
wrote:
>It's interesting to see how people value things.
At the risk of being seen as trolling (and I am NOT, despite Meth's
best [feeble] efforts to prove otherwise), you are not fsking kidding!
Although a few of the items have "collector" value, take a couple of
zeros off the end and I might be interested...
Just how many saddos are there out there? And sorry, but who's taking
advantage of that?
I strongly disapprove of fans being ripped off at the best of times -
anyone who's come across any conversation involving me and Cooney will
be able to attest to that. But the prices that are being paid for this
stuff is simply ridiculous!
Do these people have no lives?
Paul.
--
. A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality
. JMS: "SFX is a fairly useless publication on just about every imaginable front.
Never have so many jumped-up fanboys done so little, with so much, for so long."
. EMail: Unless invited to, don't. Your message is likely to be automatically deleted.
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From: Oron Port <zoraxe22 at netscape.net>
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 23:18:21 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 40
On Fri, 13 May 2005 22:51:59 +0000 (UTC), Paul Harper
<paul at harper.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 13 May 2005 20:50:06 +0000 (UTC), Jan <janmschroeder at aol.com>
>wrote:
>
>>It's interesting to see how people value things.
>
>At the risk of being seen as trolling (and I am NOT, despite Meth's
>best [feeble] efforts to prove otherwise), you are not fsking kidding!
>
>Although a few of the items have "collector" value, take a couple of
>zeros off the end and I might be interested...
>
>Just how many saddos are there out there? And sorry, but who's taking
>advantage of that?
>
>I strongly disapprove of fans being ripped off at the best of times -
>anyone who's come across any conversation involving me and Cooney will
>be able to attest to that. But the prices that are being paid for this
>stuff is simply ridiculous!
>
>Do these people have no lives?
>
>Paul.
If I had lots of money, and by lots I mean LOTS(!), that couple of 10
thousand dollars out of my back pocket won't change anything for me, I
would have bought all those items. If you have the money, why not?
Babylon 5 is dear to my heart, and to have that painting, for
instance, to wake up and look at every morning would have been
wonderful.
But I am just a student with no job and a cheap bastard, who can't
even spare the 300 for the B5 dvds, so I can't afford any of these
items at those prices.
Oron
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From: Paul Harper <paul at harper.net>
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 23:34:44 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 51
On Fri, 13 May 2005 23:18:21 +0000 (UTC), Oron Port
<zoraxe22 at netscape.net> wrote:
>If I had lots of money, and by lots I mean LOTS(!), that couple of 10
>thousand dollars out of my back pocket won't change anything for me, I
>would have bought all those items. If you have the money, why not?
Because it devalues it, that's why.
If any schmuck with a wallet full of dosh can, irrespective of their
feelings for the show, buy into a piece of (what we probably all feel
is) history, then where's the value - intrinsic, artistic or
otherwise? Because it all boils down to cash. Something stupid, and in
the final analysis valueless.
>Babylon 5 is dear to my heart, and to have that painting, for
>instance, to wake up and look at every morning would have been
>wonderful.
Agreed absolutely.
>But I am just a student with no job and a cheap bastard, who can't
>even spare the 300 for the B5 dvds, so I can't afford any of these
>items at those prices.
Yes. My point exactly. Money is NOT might. Slinging cash at something
that should [and did (imho)] have a higher artistic value cheapens and
devalues the whole enterprise.
How much better might it have been to either produce reasonable
quality facsimiles of the original, under licence, so everyone can
have a bite at the apple, then put the originals in a showcase
somewhere so those that care about such things can view them?
Sorry to the "Fans of Joe", but I really would have preferred this
garage sale not take place. It has cheapened all of B5. It has, in
every sense of the word, turned it into a marketing opportunity, which
is what Trek became several decades ago.
I personally take offence at that. I value B5 at considerably more
than a throw-away eBay sale. B5 is not some deep-space franchise to be
profitted from.
Paul.
--
. A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality
. JMS: "SFX is a fairly useless publication on just about every imaginable front.
Never have so many jumped-up fanboys done so little, with so much, for so long."
. EMail: Unless invited to, don't. Your message is likely to be automatically deleted.
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From: jmsatb5 at aol.com
Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 03:42:04 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 132
I'm sorry, Paul, but you're just not making any sense, on any
conceivable level.
First, a general note, which is that there's a peculiarly British thing
that flares into existence whenever somebody is seen making any kind of
money from something. A work of art is fine and good as long as nobody
makes anything...the moment it becomes popular, well, then it's trash
or devalued. I've seen it again and again in the media there, so this
doesn't surprise me to hear it here. It's a class thing, I think.
I would also point out that WB didn't commission B5 for artistic
reasons...it did so because the studio thought they could make money
from it. And it has. Just the DVDs alone have grossed over half a
billion dollars. Of which, incidentally, I have seen not one penny.
Due to the nature of my contract, on my first series, I will never see
a dime in profit off B5. Ever.
That clean enough for your approval, Paul?
Now, to more specifics.
Paul Harper wrote:
> On Fri, 13 May 2005 23:18:21 +0000 (UTC), Oron Port
> <zoraxe22 at netscape.net> wrote:
>
> >If I had lots of money, and by lots I mean LOTS(!), that couple of
10
> >thousand dollars out of my back pocket won't change anything for me,
I
> >would have bought all those items. If you have the money, why not?
>
> Because it devalues it, that's why.
>
Bullshit.
The show is the show is the show. This is stuff from my personal
collection.
And you know what, Paul? When it comes to what I do with my personal
life, and what I own personally...you don't get a vote. You don't get
to approve or disapprove.
> If any schmuck with a wallet full of dosh can, irrespective of their
> feelings for the show, buy into a piece of (what we probably all feel
> is) history, then where's the value - intrinsic, artistic or
> otherwise? Because it all boils down to cash. Something stupid, and
in
> the final analysis valueless.
>
More patent bullshit.
Look...in my collection I have two prize artifacts. One is a Conklin
fountain pen once owned by Mark Twain. The other is a copy of a Rod
Serling collection of short stories signed by Rod to, ironically, a
Joe. You don't want to *know* what I paid for those. Why was I
willing to pay that? Because of the provenance, because of who had
owned them, whose hands had touched them. That doesn't devalue Twain's
work, or Serling's work, it has to do with provenance.
And your argument that because something brings value it therefore has
no value or lesser value is one of the more breathtakingly vapid things
I've read in years. By that same logic, if someone pays lots for a
Picasso painting, it therefore has no value.
Again, it's that British class system thing rearing its annoying head.
> >Babylon 5 is dear to my heart, and to have that painting, for
> >instance, to wake up and look at every morning would have been
> >wonderful.
>
> Agreed absolutely.
>
> >But I am just a student with no job and a cheap bastard, who can't
> >even spare the 300 for the B5 dvds, so I can't afford any of these
> >items at those prices.
>
> Yes. My point exactly. Money is NOT might. Slinging cash at something
> that should [and did (imho)] have a higher artistic value cheapens
and
> devalues the whole enterprise.
>
So artists should suffer and be paid nothing so that their value
remains? You're not making any sense. Even for a Brit.
> How much better might it have been to either produce reasonable
> quality facsimiles of the original, under licence, so everyone can
> have a bite at the apple, then put the originals in a showcase
> somewhere so those that care about such things can view them?
>
> Sorry to the "Fans of Joe", but I really would have preferred this
> garage sale not take place. It has cheapened all of B5. It has, in
> every sense of the word, turned it into a marketing opportunity,
which
> is what Trek became several decades ago.
>
This is where the illogic of your argument takes flight into realms
hitherto undreamt of.
You're saying that in orderf to avoid something becoming a marketing
opportunity, one should mass produce the item in question, in lesser
form, removing therefore the benefit of provenance...and sell lots and
lots of copies.
See, to me, THAT is marketing, THAT is merchandising.
In most cases, these are one-offs that were used in actual production.
A copy wouldn't be the same thing, it's NOT the same thing...again,
it's the question of provenance.
> I personally take offence at that. I value B5 at considerably more
> than a throw-away eBay sale. B5 is not some deep-space franchise to
be
> profitted from.
Except that WB profits from it every day. The only person really who
doesn't profit from it is me. But that's okay by you, apparently.
Artists should make nothing, or they're sellouts.
Bullshit, Paul. Utter tripe. And by the way...you should really take
a good look at your sig next time before you post something like this.
jms
> --
> Never have so many jumped-up fanboys done so little, with so much,
for so long."
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From: "Ali Hopkins" <fn62 at dial.pipex.com>
Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 12:34:11 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 33
<jmsatb5 at aol.com> wrote in message
news:1116042082.156643.48310 at g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I've nothing to add to the general debate, but wanted to comment on the
following, hence the snippage:
> First, a general note, which is that there's a peculiarly British thing
> that flares into existence whenever somebody is seen making any kind of
> money from something. A work of art is fine and good as long as nobody
> makes anything...the moment it becomes popular, well, then it's trash
> or devalued. I've seen it again and again in the media there, so this
> doesn't surprise me to hear it here. It's a class thing, I think.
>
<snippage>
> Again, it's that British class system thing rearing its annoying head.
>
>So artists should suffer and be paid nothing so that their value
>remains? You're not making any sense. Even for a Brit.
I don't know why you felt it necessary to insult all of us Brits, but I find
it deeply offensive. I've no problem with you insulting individual posters,
Usenet is like that. But this was utterly uncalled for.
You *had* a lot of fans over here. I suspect you may have just alienated and
lost a fair few, and I include myself in that.
Ali
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From: jmsatb5 at aol.com
Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 21:56:05 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 53
Ali Hopkins wrote:
> <jmsatb5 at aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1116042082.156643.48310 at g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> I've nothing to add to the general debate, but wanted to comment on
the
> following, hence the snippage:
>
> > First, a general note, which is that there's a peculiarly British
thing
> > that flares into existence whenever somebody is seen making any
kind of
> > money from something. A work of art is fine and good as long as
nobody
> > makes anything...the moment it becomes popular, well, then it's
trash
> > or devalued. I've seen it again and again in the media there, so
this
> > doesn't surprise me to hear it here. It's a class thing, I think.
> >
> <snippage>
>
> > Again, it's that British class system thing rearing its annoying
head.
> >
>
> >So artists should suffer and be paid nothing so that their value
> >remains? You're not making any sense. Even for a Brit.
>
> I don't know why you felt it necessary to insult all of us Brits, but
I find
> it deeply offensive. I've no problem with you insulting individual
posters,
> Usenet is like that. But this was utterly uncalled for.
>
> You *had* a lot of fans over here. I suspect you may have just
alienated and
> lost a fair few, and I include myself in that.
>
> Ali
Are you saying the class system/attitude doesn't exist?
Or that it was rude of me to point it out?
Because the former has been chronicled for decades by writers and
social scientists and commentators...many of them also British, by the
by.
jms
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From: Paul Harper <paul at harper.net>
Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 22:29:34 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 40
On Sat, 14 May 2005 21:56:05 +0000 (UTC), jmsatb5 at aol.com wrote:
>
>Ali Hopkins wrote:
>> <jmsatb5 at aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:1116042082.156643.48310 at g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> You *had* a lot of fans over here. I suspect you may have just
>alienated and
>> lost a fair few, and I include myself in that.
>>
>Are you saying the class system/attitude doesn't exist?
It exists far less here than there. I have been to New York and
witnessed the appalling inequalities there first hand. It's a
full-blown caste system that makes the Indian system pale to
insignificance.
>Or that it was rude of me to point it out?
"You're not making sense. Even for a Brit" has bugger-all to do with
any so-called class system and everything to do with prejudice.
And yes, I would go so far as to say racial prejudice.
>Because the former has been chronicled for decades by writers and
>social scientists and commentators...many of them also British, by the
>by.
There goes the Victorian imagery again. We have electricity these
days, you know.
Paul.
--
. A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality
. JMS: "SFX is a fairly useless publication on just about every imaginable front.
Never have so many jumped-up fanboys done so little, with so much, for so long."
. EMail: Unless invited to, don't. Your message is likely to be automatically deleted.
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From: jmsatb5 at aol.com
Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 02:14:37 +0000 (UTC)
Lines: 367
And by the way...while I'm at it....
For me, the very definition of hypocrisy comes into play when someone
demands of others a level of perfection they do not require of
themselves.
If you're going to twig me as noted below --
Paul Harper wrote:
> "You're not making sense. Even for a Brit" has bugger-all to do with
> any so-called class system and everything to do with prejudice.
-- then you have to be able to take the position that *you* don't do
this sort of thing, because if you do, then you do not have the moral
high ground or authority with which to complain.
Just a few minutes of googling turned up the very same kind of
prejudicial comments you've made about Americans...only far, far worse
than anything I said.
In addition to agreeing that Americans are "really stupid," and
offering that all Americans are "revisionist historians," you've said:
"ALL Americans worship flags of traitor ancestors - from a historical
English perspective."
Of the election, you said "How 100 million Americans can be so dumb as
to elect a twat like him in the first place, let alone twice in a row
is so far beyond my
understanding as to be in the next galaxy. Rampant self-interest. I
guess it's not too difficult to understand it really, huh?"
"Europeans have a much better and wider view of the world." Also a
very sweeping statement about an entire population.
And my favorite exchange from you:
">That makes americans 20% smarter than 1 billion fucking moron muslims
>around the fucking moron muslim world, fucking rag head cunts.
But apparently considerably less literate."
So you have dismissed and dissed Americans as dumb, self-interested,
illiterate, worshipping flags of traitor ancestors, agreed that we are
"really stupid"...and you have the *gall* to come here and give me a
hard time about saying Britain has a rampant class system?
The citations follow.
One hopes your apology would also follow.
jms
From: Paul Harper <p... at harper.net>
Newsgroups:
alt.france,uk.politics.misc,alt.politics.england.misc,talk.politics.mideast,alt.politics.british,alt.fan.michael-moore,soc.veterans,houston.general
Subject: Re: ~ MOST AMERICANS NOT TOO SWIFT ~
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 18:36:00 +0000
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <qvtbr058ctl0gdmhljcqh7t3tkbv2gtpkh at 4ax.com>
References: <1102375493.866c101bb6b4a9b7d5075f0e39c43a36 at teranews>
<STctd.326818$9b.209772 at edtnps84> <41B56C4B.8050505 at mail.com>
Reply-To: p... at harper.net
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On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 00:39:39 -0800, David Platt <p... at mail.com>
wrote:
>What percentage of muslims believe all the utter bullshit peddled
>in their fucking moron religion, 100 fucking percent.
>That makes americans 20% smarter than 1 billion fucking moron muslims
>around the fucking moron muslim world, fucking rag head cunts.
But apparently considerably less literate.
Paul.
From: Paul Harper <p... at harper.net>
Newsgroups:
alt.france,uk.politics.misc,alt.politics.england.misc,talk.politics.mideast,alt.politics.british,alt.fan.michael-moore,soc.veterans,houston.general
Subject: Re: ~ MOST AMERICANS NOT TOO SWIFT ~
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 06:01:16 +0000
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <t26dr09q8nik7kjbjq8cc6osn9itnbsta0 at 4ax.com>
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On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 16:57:06 -0800, David Platt <p... at mail.com>
wrote:
>No they are called "lift up flaps" and are attached to pop
>up picture bokos that you and your remedial class use.
I bow to your superior knowledge on the matter. (Though it can't be
*that* superior if you're living "over there" and not over here...)
Paul (laughing at the latter-day Founding Father who presumably
couldn't cope with the competition over here so went over there where
it's a lot easier...)
From: Paul Harper <p... at harper.net>
Newsgroups:
alt.religion.christian.baptist,soc.culture.israel,tx.politics,alt.politics,alt.fan.michael-moore
Subject: Re: ~ What do Terry Schiavo & George Bush have in common? ~
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 13:04:28 +0100
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On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 12:11:10 +0100, "Anthony"
<anthonyni... at eircom.net> wrote:
>
>"Paul Harper" <p... at harper.net> wrote in message
>news:4bpb411gbcia4fe1uauu8m9icmq8mcsh09 at 4ax.com...
>> On 26 Mar 2005 12:24:19 -0800, "~ BUSH's ASS GERBIL STRIKES BACK !
~"
>> <bushs_ass_ger... at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >40% of Americans want them to live.
>>
>> Well there's a significant difference here, for a start.
>>
>> Most Brits want Ms. Schiavo to be able to die in a dignified way,
free
>> from the stupidity of those nannying idiots who think they know best
>> (a position thankfully held up by the courts so far, even if the
>> politicos don't have the balls to carry it). This must rank as the
>> first sensible decision the Florida Court has made in many years...
>
>As Bush says, it's better to "err on the side of life." (Too bad he
didn't
>take the same view when he ordered the invasion of Iraq... but anyway)
No way of proving it, of course, but I'd bet that for most of the last
decade and a half, that poor woman has been wishing fervently to die.
It is cruelty in the extreme to keep her in her vegetative state with
no hope whatsoever (beyond bead-rattling mystics chanting
incantations, or whatever passes for religion over there in the US) of
recovery.
She, Nature and "God" have decided she's not to live. It's only the
arrogance of the politicos and, in the past, the medics and her
misguided family that decided otherwise. Arrogant pricks.
>> Equally, most Brits don't give a flying fuck whether Bush lives or
>> dies because he's cost us a fortune in cash and (more importantly)
our
>> fighting forces' lives. If someone shot Bush tomorrow, I doubt many
on
>> this side of the Atlantic would give much of a toss. (If they could
>> manage to take out Cheney as well, there'd be street parties all the
>> way through the Channel Tunnel).
>
>Yes, it's safe to say everyone would go out for a few celebratory
drinks if
>Bush kicked the bucket!
>But, we all know Bush isn't running the show. That privilege goes to
Cheney,
>Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz.
And in such a simple way too:
"George, everything's running just fine, why don't you take a month or
two and have a nice holiday in Crawford".
(Packing suitcase) "You sure, guys? Gee, that's good of you"
How 100 million Americans can be so dumb as to elect a twat like him
in the first place, let alone twice in a row is so far beyond my
understanding as to be in the next galaxy.
Rampant self-interest.
I guess it's not too difficult to understand it really, huh?
Paul.
From: Paul Harper <p... at harper.net>
Newsgroups:
alt.fan.michael-moore,alt.politics.republicans,soc.women,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: our thoughts about holocaust and bolshocaust
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 11:19:32 +0100
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On 10 Sep 2004 12:09:43 -0700, goyli... at hotmail.com (Goy Liath) wrote:
>Paul Harper <p... at harper.net> wrote in message
news:<c8u2k0tu54gd986557aom4kake4omul13d at 4ax.com>...
>> On 10 Sep 2004 00:53:02 -0700, goyli... at hotmail.com (Goy Liath)
wrote:
>>
>> >we never seem to forget about the nazi genocide--holocaust--but
most
>> >americans know nothing of the horrors of communist
>> >classicide--bolshocaust.
>>
>> And choose to deliberately pretend that their own genocide of Native
>> Americans didn't happen.
>>
>> Revisionist historians - don't you love 'em?
>
>we deal with them. look at american AND european history books. the
>treatment of the indians is amply covered.
>yet, almost no one knows about the millions killed by lenin, stalin,
>mao, etc.
Maybe not in America. Europeans have a much better and wider view of
the world. I'd bet most Europeans are very aware of those as well.
I know I am.
Paul.
From: Paul Harper <p... at harper.net>
Newsgroups:
alt.fan.michael-moore,alt.politics.republicans,soc.women,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: our thoughts about holocaust and bolshocaust
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:51:43 +0100
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On 10 Sep 2004 00:53:02 -0700, goyli... at hotmail.com (Goy Liath) wrote:
>we never seem to forget about the nazi genocide--holocaust--but most
>americans know nothing of the horrors of communist
>classicide--bolshocaust.
And choose to deliberately pretend that their own genocide of Native
Americans didn't happen.
Revisionist historians - don't you love 'em?
Paul.
From: Paul Harper <p... at harper.net>
Newsgroups: alt.adjective
Subject: Re: Well , looks like we are all doomed then
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 08:20:54 +0000
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On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 07:25:49 -0000, "Dr Zoidberg"
<AlexNOOOOO!... at drzoidberg.co.uk> wrote:
> Americans really are stupid [1]
>
>[1] With the obvious exceptions
Agreed. It was one depressing night's television watching, I must
admit. Not 100% over yet, but all indications... etc. :-((((((((
Paul.
From: Paul Harper <p... at harper.net>
Newsgroups:
alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.republicans,alt.politics.democrats,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.michael-moore
Subject: Re: 1944 versus 2004
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 09:28:53 +0100
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On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 01:09:49 -0700, "Mr. N"
<seattledemocr... at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Scott Marquardt" <wasREMOVEk... at hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:do4ay4owzoyu$.dlg at marquardts.org...
>
>> What does that have to do with whether they had the right to secede?
Are
>> you saying that war against sovereign secessionists is justified to
>> liberate people held in tyranny? ;-)
>
>They had no right to secede, and were not held in tyranny. They
turned
>their backs on the United States Constitution and committed treason.
There is no "right" to secession. It always has to be fought for
either physically or politically.
>Many southerners still worship the flag of their traitor ancestors.
ALL Americans worship flags of traitor ancestors - from a historical
English perspective.
You need to take a wider view on things like this.
Paul.
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