[B5JMS] Babylon 5 - The Lost Tales
b5jms at mail.fsl.cs.sunysb.edu
b5jms at mail.fsl.cs.sunysb.edu
Tue May 1 04:34:02 EDT 2007
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From: "Mac Breck" <macthevorlon at yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:58:01 -0400
Lines: 34
Re.
"April 10: Pat Tallman's career lives thanks to DEAD AIR"
http://www.fangoria.com/news_article.php?id=4059
How about getting Pat Tallman back to do a "B5: The Lost Tales" episode?
I'm sure a lot of us would LOVE to see our favorite red-haired goddess
again. I know I would!
ps. Ditto for Claudia. :D Who else looks so damned good in a
pulled-back hairstyle? (Remembering the Claudia in the Great Machine
close-ups)
I miss 'em both!
--
Mac Breck (KoshN)
-------------------------------
"Keen Eddie" (2004)
Fiona: Get out.
Eddie: Out of the kitchen?
Fiona: Out of the kitchen, out of the flat, out of London, out of the
world. It's full. Get out.
Eddie: I can't get out of the world. I didn't pull the kind of math
grades you need to qualify for the space program.
"Brimstone" (1998)
Angel: Oh, there's one more thing you should know. Your fate was never
determined until you killed Gilbert Jax. All in all, you've led a good
life, Ezekiel. Have faith. Your work's appreciated.
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From: "Mac Breck" <macthevorlon at yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 15:49:48 -0400
Lines: 138
"Jan" <janmschroeder at aol.com> wrote in message
news:f10mof02gci at drn.newsguy.com...
> In article <1177778074.584680.245790 at y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
Joseph
> DeMartino says...
> >
> >
> >But while she made the final decision, I stand by what I've been
> >saying here and elsewhere since the news first broke - that I think
it
> >is possible, even likely, that she was getting horribly bad advice
> >from her agent and/or manager and she listened to it.
>
>
> While I fully expected to get furious with Claudia all over again, I
have to
> agree with this. Somehow this iteration seemed to make it clear that
what
> happened was an attempted contract manipulation (not negotiation,
mind) gone
> dreadfully wrong. I don't condone what she did, I'm just less
inclined to think
> it was purely malicious.
The part where Claudia said:
"I only want to do 18 episodes instead of 22.....but I want it in my
contract that I'm to be paid for all 22."
and
"It has to be eighteen episodes to appear, twenty-two episodes paid
for."
...told to JMS at Blackpool ON the drop dead date[1], after he'd gone
through so much to trim the shooting schedule in the budget from 7 days
to 6 days, in order to GET the renewal, was underhanded and selfish in
the EXTREME. I mean was Claudia so out of touch with reality that she
didn't know they were trying to cut every ounce of fat there was to get
the renewal, and then that her asking for a raise (which would also
cause all the other cast members to get a raise) would ABSOLUTELY SINK
the Season 5 renewal FOR EVERYBODY, the renewal they'd just worked so
hard to get. There was no room for salary increases. They'd just
squeaked by to get the Season 5 renewal. What?...did she have her head
in the sand the whole time and was oblivious to what her actions would
cause??? A year later, she was quoted in Sci-Fi Invasion:
"I think he (JMS) feels that I put them out or something by quitting the
show, when in essence I don't really think it affected anything....I
just didn't think there'd be a lot for me to do and I didn't want to be
relegated to one more year of not having any challenges."
Yeah, quit after four years of a five year show. Doing that last year
and finishing the show would really have been a hardship. <S>:
"I think he (JMS) feels that I put them out or something by quitting the
show, when in essence I don't really think it affected anything....I
just didn't think there'd be a lot for me to do and I didn't want to be
relegated to one more year of not having any challenges."
How could somebody be THAT clueless? Her story had been built up over
the course of FOUR YEARS. JMS told her she'd be running B5 in Season 5.
"I don't really think it affected anything." What??? She turned out to
be the monkey wrench in the gears. B5 built up from Season 1 through
Season 4 getting better and better all the time, and then Season 5
started out crappy in comparison to Season 4 (It got good in the second
half of Season 5.). She's the monkey wrench sitting next to a pile of
mangled gears, essentially saying "Oh, that's not MY fault. I didn't
cause that." The part where she says "I think he (JMS) feels that I put
them out or something by quitting the show, when in essence I don't
really think it affected anything." is just her way of deflecting blame
and not taking responsibility.
Later on, she said she couldn't believe they thought they could replace
Ivanova. My response is "What choice did they have? YOU put them in the
position of having to replace Ivanova OR not having a Season 5. Because
of your actions, either Ivanova is replaced, or all of the rest of the
cast and crew is out of work AFTER they'd just got the job for Season
5." That's the epitome of selfishness.
> Bottom line is, she acted badly and
> completely selfishly.
Completely selfishly is right!
> I'm likely to be seeing Claudia at a convention appearance here in
May. It'll
> be interesting to see what questions might come up about it.
The questions, yes. As for the answers, it doesn't really matter.
[1] Ask yourself, why did she wait until the drop dead date to tell
JMS::
"I only want to do 18 episodes instead of 22.....but I want it in my
contract that I'm to be paid for all 22."
and
"It has to be eighteen episodes to appear, twenty-two episodes paid
for."
Why did she wait until after they'd gotten the renewal to mention that?
She thought she'd have them over a barrel, because they'd trusted her to
sign the extension, and then she held out, thinking they couldn't
replace her. Then she tried to whip the fans into a frenzy on July
19th, by saying she'd ben fired. I guess she hoped that fan pressure
would cause Warner Bros. to bring her back. How much more childish and
selfish could she have acted?
Grrrrrr. :mad:
--
Mac Breck (KoshN)
-------------------------------
"Keen Eddie" (2004)
Fiona: Get out.
Eddie: Out of the kitchen?
Fiona: Out of the kitchen, out of the flat, out of London, out of the
world. It's full. Get out.
Eddie: I can't get out of the world. I didn't pull the kind of math
grades you need to qualify for the space program.
"Brimstone" (1998)
Angel: Oh, there's one more thing you should know. Your fate was never
determined until you killed Gilbert Jax. All in all, you've led a good
life, Ezekiel. Have faith. Your work's appreciated.
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From: Jan <janmschroeder at aol.com>
Date: 29 Apr 2007 14:51:06 -0700
Lines: 65
In article <4634f8cc$0$20575$ecde5a14 at news.coretel.net>, Mac Breck says...
>
> I mean was Claudia so out of touch with reality that she
>didn't know they were trying to cut every ounce of fat there was to get
>the renewal, and then that her asking for a raise (which would also
>cause all the other cast members to get a raise) would ABSOLUTELY SINK
>the Season 5 renewal FOR EVERYBODY, the renewal they'd just worked so
>hard to get. There was no room for salary increases. They'd just
>squeaked by to get the Season 5 renewal. What?...did she have her head
>in the sand the whole time and was oblivious to what her actions would
>cause???
Probably. Now don't get me wrong, I'm hardly defending Claudia but it's
reaching pretty far to assume that she or any other member of the cast had any
real clue as to what was going on. How many times has JMS said in the script
books that part of his job was to keep the cast and crew from knowing when the
series was threatened? I can point you to a paragraph Jeffrey Willerth wrote
for one of the Andy Lane books where even he, a producer's associate, complained
about being out of the loop so it's hardly a stretch to assume that Claudia
wasn't fully cognizant of the ramifications of what she was doing. To her it
was probably just a ploy to get a raise with no intent to harm the show.
I also think that it's absolutely appropriate that the actors be kept out of
that loop to prevent exactly this sort of occurrance.
As for head in the sand...how many of those same people never seemed to
understand that it was a five year story and not likely to ever become a six or
seven year story? Bruce Boxleitner. Pat Tallman. Jeffrey Willerth. Jerry
Doyle. Those are just the ones I've personally heard say that B5 should have
continued past five years.
>
>How could somebody be THAT clueless? Her story had been built up over
>the course of FOUR YEARS. JMS told her she'd be running B5 in Season 5.
>"I don't really think it affected anything." What??? She turned out to
>be the monkey wrench in the gears.
Clueless or sensing an opening to leverage a higher 'quote' due to knowing that
a) she was in SiL and therefor her character couldn't be simply killed off and
that b) her character was scheduled to come to the fore in season 5, giving her
more leverage. Remember, to *us* it's a story, to her it's a job in an industry
where leverage is pretty darned important.
JMS tells in Volume 11 about the perception of Producer vs Actor and that's
something that's been talked about many times over the years since this all came
down. Several of the actors felt pressured over the rush to get the contracts
signed, as JMS mentioned himself. What hadn't been as clear before was that
they'd had time to do their homework and simply didn't.
The fact remains that she bet everything on being able to leverage her way into
a higher pay rate and lost. She not only didn't get that raise, she lost the
entire season's work and pay. I doubt if it did her or her agent's reputations
very much good either. They blew it. Badly.
Jan
--
If we are to be who we are, and what we are; if we are to accomplish great
things, then we must learn the heart's most essential rule:
"Never Surrender Dreams."
J. Michael Straczynski
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From: Angelika Tobisch <kamyra at arcor.de>
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 03:28:20 +0200
Lines: 48
Jan schrieb:
> As for head in the sand...how many of those same people never seemed to
> understand that it was a five year story and not likely to ever become a six or
> seven year story? Bruce Boxleitner. Pat Tallman. Jeffrey Willerth. Jerry
> Doyle. Those are just the ones I've personally heard say that B5 should have
> continued past five years.
Not to mention people who refused to accept they'd get their place in
the spotlight later on in the arc or blew contract negotiations, but
were lucky enough to get a second chance. The fact that there's still
controversy about this particular incident just goes to show how much of
a fan favorite Ivanova really was.
And, hey, "the way I figure it, we are all entitled to one really big,
incredibly stupid screw-up in our lives." I'm not saying this was hers
because that's so not for me to judge, but I'm sure as hell not going to
be angry at anybody for something like that a decade after the fact. As
much as I love the show and as much as I missed Ivanova in S5, I've
always thought that if you're going to be angry, you might as well go
for the really big stuff, and that's not part of it in my book. Now, if
I had somehow been personally involved, that would be something else
completely.
Angelika
P.S. I do, however, consider it important enough for me to wish I'd
finally get that $%&/ book ;)
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From: Richard Fallstrom <rick.fallstrom at donobi.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 06:53:39 -0700
Lines: 42
In article <46354699$0$23131$9b4e6d93 at newsspool1.arcor-online.net>,
Angelika Tobisch <kamyra at arcor.de> wrote:
> Jan schrieb:
>
> > As for head in the sand...how many of those same people never seemed to
> > understand that it was a five year story and not likely to ever become a
> > six or
> > seven year story? Bruce Boxleitner. Pat Tallman. Jeffrey Willerth. Jerry
> > Doyle. Those are just the ones I've personally heard say that B5 should
> > have
> > continued past five years.
>
> Not to mention people who refused to accept they'd get their place in
> the spotlight later on in the arc or blew contract negotiations, but
> were lucky enough to get a second chance. The fact that there's still
> controversy about this particular incident just goes to show how much of
> a fan favorite Ivanova really was.
>
> And, hey, "the way I figure it, we are all entitled to one really big,
> incredibly stupid screw-up in our lives." I'm not saying this was hers
> because that's so not for me to judge, but I'm sure as hell not going to
> be angry at anybody for something like that a decade after the fact. As
> much as I love the show and as much as I missed Ivanova in S5, I've
> always thought that if you're going to be angry, you might as well go
> for the really big stuff, and that's not part of it in my book. Now, if
> I had somehow been personally involved, that would be something else
> completely.
>
> Angelika
>
> P.S. I do, however, consider it important enough for me to wish I'd
> finally get that $%&/ book ;)
>
>
Something I remember from Season 5 is Claudia did get a "walk-on" part
as a Centauri who flirted with G'kar in his role as Lando's bodyguard.
Rick (sometimes is a GentleRF and sometimes is not)
.
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From: "jmsatb5 at aol.com" <jmsatb5 at aol.com>
Date: 30 Apr 2007 16:34:56 -0700
Lines: 49
On Apr 30, 5:53 am, Richard Fallstrom <rick.fallst... at donobi.net>
wrote:
> In article <46354699$0$23131$9b4e6... at newsspool1.arcor-online.net>,
>
>
>
>
>
> Angelika Tobisch <kam... at arcor.de> wrote:
> > Jan schrieb:
>
> > > As for head in the sand...how many of those same people never seemed to
> > > understand that it was a five year story and not likely to ever become a
> > > six or
> > > seven year story? Bruce Boxleitner. Pat Tallman. Jeffrey Willerth. Jerry
> > > Doyle. Those are just the ones I've personally heard say that B5 should
> > > have
> > > continued past five years.
>
> > Not to mention people who refused to accept they'd get their place in
> > the spotlight later on in the arc or blew contract negotiations, but
> > were lucky enough to get a second chance. The fact that there's still
> > controversy about this particular incident just goes to show how much of
> > a fan favorite Ivanova really was.
>
> > And, hey, "the way I figure it, we are all entitled to one really big,
> > incredibly stupid screw-up in our lives." I'm not saying this was hers
> > because that's so not for me to judge, but I'm sure as hell not going to
> > be angry at anybody for something like that a decade after the fact. As
> > much as I love the show and as much as I missed Ivanova in S5, I've
> > always thought that if you're going to be angry, you might as well go
> > for the really big stuff, and that's not part of it in my book. Now, if
> > I had somehow been personally involved, that would be something else
> > completely.
>
> > Angelika
>
> > P.S. I do, however, consider it important enough for me to wish I'd
> > finally get that $%&/ book ;)
>
> Something I remember from Season 5 is Claudia did get a "walk-on" part
> as a Centauri who flirted with G'kar in his role as Lando's bodyguard.
>
Urban myth. Never happened.
jms
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