[B5JMS] B5 fan page Facebook controversy

Thu Jul 30 04:35:31 EDT 2009

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From: Amy Guskin <aisling at fjordstone.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 16:08:17 GMT
Lines: 35

Interesting little drama going on over at Facebook.  There's a page(tm) there 
(people have _profiles_ of which you can become a friend; famous people and 
things like tv shows have _pages_ of which you can become a fan) for Babylon 
5.  I have no idea who started it, but it's not official; it's just some fan. 
 I 'fanned' the page, and so, apparently, have over 21,000 others.

Today the page owner posted an update saying, "Due to the large number of 
fans on this page, Facebook is asking me to hand it over to Warner Brothers 
Entertainment.  And while I disagree with their reasoning for it, I think 
that it would be a good idea to give control over to WBE anyway.  I hope that 
nobody has problems with this.  I'll be handing over the Crusade fan page as 
well."

Personally, I don't like this. There's no money involved in having a Facebook 
page, he isn't selling anything, so this guy isn't doing anything hinky at 
all (overlooking the completely overlookable use of the images, photos, and 
the use of the trademarked logo as the page's profile image, which is 
arguably no different than any fan presence anywhere, on Facebook or the wild 
internets).  What's Warner Bros. doing for Babylon 5, anyway?  Are they 
worried to have a fan running the page, or is this just like the practice of 
buying up all domains related to one's property?  Why would they suddenly be 
interested enough in this property to be concerned about its social 
networking presence?

The post has generated a lot of comments -- 90 so far -- and I was just 
curious if anyone here had an opinion.

Amy
-- 
Ten Thousand Questions
A Question a Day for Journaling, Self-Discovery, and Transformation
"2009 is the Year of Questions"
tenthousandquestions.com

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From: Christophe Bachmann <Chris_CII at JMVD.Info>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 19:11:08 +0200
Lines: 77

Amy Guskin a =E9crit :
> Interesting little drama going on over at Facebook.  There's a page(tm)=
 there=20
> (people have _profiles_ of which you can become a friend; famous people=
 and=20
> things like tv shows have _pages_ of which you can become a fan) for Ba=
bylon=20
> 5.  I have no idea who started it, but it's not official; it's just som=
e fan.=20
>  I 'fanned' the page, and so, apparently, have over 21,000 others.
>=20
> Today the page owner posted an update saying, "Due to the large number =
of=20
> fans on this page, Facebook is asking me to hand it over to Warner Brot=
hers=20
> Entertainment.  And while I disagree with their reasoning for it, I thi=
nk=20
> that it would be a good idea to give control over to WBE anyway.  I hop=
e that=20
> nobody has problems with this.  I'll be handing over the Crusade fan pa=
ge as=20
> well."
>=20
> Personally, I don't like this. There's no money involved in having a Fa=
cebook=20
> page, he isn't selling anything, so this guy isn't doing anything hinky=
 at=20
> all (overlooking the completely overlookable use of the images, photos,=
 and=20
> the use of the trademarked logo as the page's profile image, which is=20
> arguably no different than any fan presence anywhere, on Facebook or th=
e wild=20
> internets).  What's Warner Bros. doing for Babylon 5, anyway?  Are they=
=20
> worried to have a fan running the page, or is this just like the practi=
ce of=20
> buying up all domains related to one's property?  Why would they sudden=
ly be=20
> interested enough in this property to be concerned about its social=20
> networking presence?
>=20
> The post has generated a lot of comments -- 90 so far -- and I was just=
=20
> curious if anyone here had an opinion.
>=20
> Amy

First IANAL and I don't know any particulars of this case, but AFAIK we=20
just have a runaway trademark issue, in that if WBE doesn't aggressively=20
pursue any infraction of trademarks (however overlookable) they risk=20
being 'genericised' and loosing their exclusivity.

B5 isn't the first show to be impacted, I remember a whole fuss around=20
FOX (TM) sending cease-and-desist letters to fans of Millenium (c) (TM)=20
  and the crackdown by Paramount (TM) on fan-sites with Star Trek (c)=20
(TM) material...

It looks like every time some fan makes something successful enough not=20
to 'fly under the radar' anymore companies are legally obligated to stop=20
it ASAP.

And I'll have to try and find the letter from an IP lawyer that was=20
webbed in place of a closed fan-site explaining that the firm (I don't=20
remember which) saw nothing wrong with the site but they were compelled=20
to do it in the best interest of the show, but that letter could have=20
passed into oblivion.

One more effect of the current IP laws.

I leave any personal comment off record because one should always obey=20
the laws of the land, and vote for people who will draft responsible=20
laws, or repeal bad ones (whenever possible) ...
--=20
Greetings, Salutations,
Guiraud Belissen, Ch=E2teau du Ciel, Drachenwald,
Chris CII, Rennes, France

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From: voxwoman <voxwoman at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 14:14:05 -0700 (PDT)
Lines: 69

On Jul 29, 1:11=A0pm, Christophe Bachmann <Chris_... at JMVD.Info> wrote:
> Amy Guskin a =E9crit :
>
>
>
> > Interesting little drama going on over at Facebook. =A0There's a page(t=
m) there
> > (people have _profiles_ of which you can become a friend; famous people=
 and
> > things like tv shows have _pages_ of which you can become a fan) for Ba=
bylon
> > 5. =A0I have no idea who started it, but it's not official; it's just s=
ome fan.
> > =A0I 'fanned' the page, and so, apparently, have over 21,000 others.
>
> > Today the page owner posted an update saying, "Due to the large number =
of
> > fans on this page, Facebook is asking me to hand it over to Warner Brot=
hers
> > Entertainment. =A0And while I disagree with their reasoning for it, I t=
hink
> > that it would be a good idea to give control over to WBE anyway. =A0I h=
ope that
> > nobody has problems with this. =A0I'll be handing over the Crusade fan =
page as
> > well."
>
> > Personally, I don't like this. There's no money involved in having a Fa=
cebook
> > page, he isn't selling anything, so this guy isn't doing anything hinky=
 at
> > all (overlooking the completely overlookable use of the images, photos,=
 and
> > the use of the trademarked logo as the page's profile image, which is
> > arguably no different than any fan presence anywhere, on Facebook or th=
e wild
> > internets). =A0What's Warner Bros. doing for Babylon 5, anyway? =A0Are =
they
> > worried to have a fan running the page, or is this just like the practi=
ce of
> > buying up all domains related to one's property? =A0Why would they sudd=
enly be
> > interested enough in this property to be concerned about its social
> > networking presence?
>
> > The post has generated a lot of comments -- 90 so far -- and I was just
> > curious if anyone here had an opinion.
>
> > Amy
>
> First IANAL and I don't know any particulars of this case, but AFAIK we
> just have a runaway trademark issue, in that if WBE doesn't aggressively
> pursue any infraction of trademarks (however overlookable) they risk
> being 'genericised' and loosing their exclusivity.
>
> B5 isn't the first show to be impacted, I remember a whole fuss around
> FOX (TM) sending cease-and-desist letters to fans of Millenium (c) (TM)
> =A0 and the crackdown by Paramount (TM) on fan-sites with Star Trek (c)
> (TM) material...

They must have been going nuts in the year 2000...

And I wonder if Lucas and Fox had a bit of a tussle over Han Solo's
ship name. I think Lucas has "prior art" on his side...

I understand about this, but it seems rather draconian.

-Wendy

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From: Joseph DeMartino <jdemarti at bellsouth.net>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 14:48:07 -0700 (PDT)
Lines: 27

On Jul 29, 5:14=A0pm, voxwoman <voxwo... at gmail.com> wrote:
> They must have been going nuts in the year 2000...
>
> And I wonder if Lucas and Fox had a bit of a tussle over Han Solo's
> ship name. I think Lucas has "prior art" on his side...

Fox went after the "Millenium" fan sites because they produced the TV
series "Millenium".

In the case of words, trademark can only apply to the use of a
particular word or phrase *in a given commercial context.*  Assuming
that either Lucas or Fox ever trademarked "Millenium Falcon", they
would only have rights to the entire unique phrase, not each of the
words.  Similarly when Donald Trump trademarked "You're fired!" or
Walmart trademarked "Always", which are not unique, they did so only
in the context of reality TV and promotional materials pertaining
thereto, and advertising for a retail store.  No boss anywhere had to
pay The Donald a royalty for saying, "You're fired!".  <g>  Fox would
be able to defend the trademark for "Millenium", but only in the form
of the particular logo for the series (the unique font, etc.), not the
word itself.  So it would have no quarell with Lucas or with any of
the folks promoting business around the year 2000.

Regards,

Joe

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From: Joseph Straczynski <jmsatb5 at aol.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 17:14:54 -0700 (PDT)
Lines: 14

I called WB and nobody in WB online or legal affairs seems to know
anything about this.  So I suspect that either Facebook is acting pre-
emptively, or this may not be entirely as reported.  As one person at
WB said, "There are thousands of B5 sites out there, if we started
going out there to get them we'd never have time to do anything else."

Doesn't mean for sure that somebody at WB didn't drop a note,
somewhere in the deep recesses of the company, just that I'm much
inclined to doubt that it actually happened.  They're just not that
engaged when it comes to this sort of thing, especially for a show
that's not currently on the air.

jms