[B5JMS] BSG Ending episode *spoiler thread*

[b5jms at mail.fsl.cs.sunysb.edu]

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From: voxwoman <voxwoman at gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 08:35:33 -0700 (PDT)
Lines: 13

so, I watched that whole bloody series...

s
p
o
o

s
p
a
c
e


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From: Jan <janmschroeder at aol.com>
Date: 21 Mar 2009 10:04:43 -0700
Lines: 36

In article <981e64f9-e1c3-4217-ad06-8c38f9593e4e at d19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
voxwoman says...
>
>so, I watched that whole bloody series...
>
>s
>p
>o
>o
>
>s
>p
>a
>c
>e
>

and whatever you wrote after the spoiler space was lost.

I *didn't* watch the whole series, gave it up a while back due to the
unrelenting grimness even though I loved the characters and the quality of the
show.

I've been watching this last several episodes, though, and the finale last
night.  I thought it was a fitting send-off to the show...if only it had ended
before the "150,000 years later" bit which I thought was a distraction and a
waste.  Had to smile at the RDM cameo, though.

Jan


-- 
Here, gathered together in common cause, we agree to recognize
this singular truth: that we are one; and this singular rule: that
we must be kind to one another.


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From: voxwoman <voxwoman at gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 11:13:59 -0700 (PDT)
Lines: 97

On Mar 21, 1:04=A0pm, Jan <janmschroe... at aol.com> wrote:
> In article <981e64f9-e1c3-4217-ad06-8c38f9593... at d19g2000yqb.googlegroups=
.com>,
> voxwoman says...
>
>
>
> >so, I watched that whole bloody series...
>
> >s
> >p
> >o
> >o
>
> >s
> >p
> >a
> >c
> >e
>
> and whatever you wrote after the spoiler space was lost.

Well, my browser is being kind to me, and the text was still cached!
what I said was this:

There were moments I laughed out loud, and a lot of good stuff in
there. Many times did I wish the rest of the last couple of years were
this good, and the CGI was superrealistic to the point that it was
"too" good and actually looked more fake than the not-as-well rendered
stuff from years ago. (and more fake than filming scale models). It
could be that I'm not used to Hi-def television (and we just inherited
one from my father).

One thing that I was a bit frustrated with was with the new flashback
scenes. If they had that scene with Tigh and Adama in the gogo bar in
the pilot episode - that would have been truly awesome, worthy to a
successor to Babylon 5. All that backstory stuff should have been
seeded in earlier episodes, so the revelations would have been even
greater than they were.

I was annoyed when it got preachy and characters had to explain what
we've just seen for the people who didn't "get it" via the
storytelling. I was waiting for the "moral of the story" light to
flash on and off at the bottom of the screen.

Other observations about yesterday... I heard on NPR on my drive home
last evening that there was a big BSG panel at the *United Nations*
with 2 leads (Adama and Rosslyn) and Moore and Eick, 100 high school
kids and Whoopi Goldberg presiding. I think UN delegates were playing
the roles of representatives of the 12 colony planets.... And all I
could think of was that BSG had a way better publicity machine than
Babylon 5.

B5 I think was ahead of its time, and BSG is part of its time. The
topics that the UN were interested in exploring had to do with
terrorism and torture, and I think about Season 4 of B5, and how all
these things were also touched on, but the current events of the time
were not dovetailing in quite the way that they were with the BSG
storyline.

I guess I will have to get the rest of the DVDs when they come out and
watch in a marathon (and also start noting which lame episodes I can
skip) and see if it flows better or worse.

"Caprica" looks like they shopped "Dallas in Space" to the network. I
have no idea what the new Stargate series is about, and I'm wondering
WTF "BSG: the Plan" is supposed to be - more retconning and filling in
that should have been done during the original series?

One thing Trek taught these guys is how to build a franchise...


X-Men:Origins looks really good, though.

-Wendy of NJ
>
> I *didn't* watch the whole series, gave it up a while back due to the
> unrelenting grimness even though I loved the characters and the quality o=
f the
> show.
>
> I've been watching this last several episodes, though, and the finale las=
t
> night. =A0I thought it was a fitting send-off to the show...if only it ha=
d ended
> before the "150,000 years later" bit which I thought was a distraction an=
d a
> waste. =A0Had to smile at the RDM cameo, though.
>
> Jan
>
> --
> Here, gathered together in common cause, we agree to recognize
> this singular truth: that we are one; and this singular rule: that
> we must be kind to one another.



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From: Amy Guskin <aisling at fjordstone.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 02:11:24 GMT
Lines: 262

>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:13:59 -0400, thus spake voxwoman (in article=20
<26a273f9-f8f0-44e7-8243-0f2ef2ab7f49 at h20g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>):

> On Mar 21, 1:04=A0pm, Jan <janmschroe... at aol.com> wrote:
>> In article=20
>> <981e64f9-e1c3-4217-ad06-8c38f9593... at d19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
>> voxwoman says...
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>> so, I watched that whole bloody series...
>>=20
>>> s
>>> p
>>> o
>>> o
>>=20
>>> s
>>> p
>>> a
>>> c
>>> e
>>=20
>> and whatever you wrote after the spoiler space was lost.
>=20
> Well, my browser is being kind to me, and the text was still cached!
> what I said was this:
>=20
> There were moments I laughed out loud, and a lot of good stuff in
> there. Many times did I wish the rest of the last couple of years were
> this good, and the CGI was superrealistic to the point that it was
> "too" good and actually looked more fake than the not-as-well rendered
> stuff from years ago. (and more fake than filming scale models). It
> could be that I'm not used to Hi-def television (and we just inherited
> one from my father).
>=20
> One thing that I was a bit frustrated with was with the new flashback
> scenes. If they had that scene with Tigh and Adama in the gogo bar in
> the pilot episode - that would have been truly awesome, worthy to a
> successor to Babylon 5. All that backstory stuff should have been
> seeded in earlier episodes, so the revelations would have been even
> greater than they were. <<

Amen, sistah!  If you're going to use a gun in the third act, it should h=
ave=20
been on the mantle in the first act.  I have a LOT to say about this fina=
le,=20
which seriously pissed me off...

I was very disappointed; to me, the whole thing came off as very...writte=
n,=20
for lack of a better word. =A0You could sense the hand of an author behin=
d it,=20
knowing he was saying goodbye to his characters. =A0A lot of characteriza=
tions=20
didn't ring true for me, and it all had the shiny, glossy patina of a dre=
am=20
-- kind of like that final, soft-focus scene of "A Nightmare on Elm Stree=
t"=20
just before the 'gotcha!,' where the mother is alive again, Johnny Depp i=
s=20
alive again, and all is tra-la-la happy and carefree, and oh-so-fake...

Regarding the guns firing in the third act without having been placed in =
the=20
first act, to my tastes, there were too many things that were "huh"s in t=
his=20
last season, and even as late as this episode.

All the stuff with Kara and the musical notes is the best example: we nev=
er=20
heard ANYTHING about her father for all the previous seasons, or were sho=
wn=20
that she had ANY musical abilities/inclinations. =A0If they _had_ shown t=
hat,=20
the whole thing with the father and the piano and the notes -- and Kara b=
eing=20
the one to recognize that Hera's dots were notes -- would have been MUCH =
more=20
powerful, and effective. =A0So to have her pull that out of thin air when=
 she=20
was looking for some coordinates to plug into the FTL was just a little t=
oo=20
convenient and eye-rolly for me. =A0First off, if they were on a suicide=20
mission, and thought that if they DID manage to return to the fleet, it w=
ould=20
only be by the skin of their teeth, why wouldn't they have the coordinate=
s=20
pre-programmed into the FTL? =A0Okay, okay, you're going to say that they=
=20
wanted to protect the rest of the fleet in case they failed. =A0Point tak=
en.=20
=A0But why, when they _needed_ to jump out of there, were the coordinates=
=20
completely unavailable? =A0Who knew them? =A0Who had them? =A0It _must_ h=
ave been=20
someone on CIC.

Who the heck is that Hoshi guy? =A0We saw him once, maybe, in the previou=
s=20
episode, so Adama saying that the fleet needed someone they knew and trus=
ted,=20
and then handing the admiral's pins to that no-name guy, was pretty much =
a=20
"huh??" moment for me.

And, I doubt Romo Lampkin would have accepted the job of president. =A0No=
t=20
based on the character as written in all his previous episodes, at least!

But the big, bad, 800-pound-gorilla-in-the-room faux pas, in my opinion, =
is=20
this: Is it really reasonable that they chose to risk a significant=20
percentage of remaining humanity -- and some of the most productive, capa=
ble=20
members of those remaining -- to save one child? =A0I do see how Hera was=
=20
important to the Cylons -- without resurrection tech, they needed to know=
 how=20
they could reproduce naturally -- but why was she more than just one chil=
d to=20
the humans? =A0I think any military commander would have deemed that an=20
unacceptable risk.

After landing on Earth, would they _really_ have destroyed the fleet so=20
quickly? =A0What if the planet proved to be hostile? =A0Shouldn't they ha=
ve hung=20
onto some ships for awhile?

Okay, so they _did_ hang onto at least one ship. =A0So what about Adama's=
=20
Raptor? =A0Where did they hide it? =A0Behind Stonehenge? =A0Deep under Lo=
ch Ness? =20
What about the ships being used to move people around the planet? =A0Or d=
id=20
those go back up into orbit for Sam's trip into the sun? =A0Bottom line, =
they=20
could _not_ have had that kind of tech on this planet and not polluted th=
e=20
historical record.

What happened to Saul's relationship with the Six? =A0How come he was sud=
denly=20
back with Ellen again? =A0I thought he and the Six really loved one anoth=
er?=20
=A0She just seemed to disappear after the loss of the baby. =A0Or...it wa=
sn't=20
Caprica who was with Saul, was it? =A0Just another of the bleached blonde=
=20
versions of the Six? =A0What happened to her? =A0When did they break up a=
nd Saul=20
and Ellen reunite?

When Lee said, "Goodbye, Kara -- you won't be forgotten," tell me I'm not=
 the=20
only one who thought "Yes, millions will drink your coffee every day!"

As for Kara...where did she go? =A0Here's one place where I definitely ca=
lled=20
shenanigans. =A0Was she a ghost? =A0A witch? =A0A magician? =A0An angel? =
=A0A=20
superhero? =A0How does a normal human disappear from a broad, flat field =
like=20
that without the other human there seeing her? =A0Considering what Kara f=
ound=20
on the other Earth, I think it was INCREDIBLY stinky and bad writing to j=
ust=20
leave that flapping in the wind, not telling us WHAT she was. =A0But appa=
rently=20
they wanted to leave that open so they could make her go *poof!* so=20
dramatically in the finale. =A0<eye roll>

Feh. =A0I know I shouldn't be annoyed -- the show has never really lived =
up to=20
the first season since somewhere mid-second season, but I kind of hoped t=
hey=20
had a plan of _some_ sort that would make it all make sense by the finale=
.=20
=A0Honestly, I don't think this was a plan. =A0If it _was_, it was a suck=
y one. =20
Then again, I'm probably spoiled because of B5's tight plotting.

One of my friends has been reading all of the recent interviews with Eick=
 and=20
Moore, and is now really pissed at finding out how shockingly underplanne=
d it=20
all was, particularly about how late they came up with -- and inserted --=
 the=20
whole plotline about the final five.  IMHO, this was fan service, pure an=
d=20
simple. =A0They knew Ellen was popular, so they brought her back as a Fin=
al=20
Five. =A0If they couldn't bring back Billy (Roslin's more popular origina=
l=20
assistant), they'd make Tori the evil Cylon. =A0Etc. =A0And once you go d=
own the=20
road of fan service, that way lies madness. =A0The problem with not knowi=
ng=20
that kind of thing in advance is that they couldn't plant stuff, seemingl=
y=20
innocent, throwaway lines, in their dialogue months -- or even years! --=20
before, and make it pay out later on down the line. =A0Like another show =
we all=20
know and love that rewards the astute observer.

One thing I want to mention is the opera house stuff. =A0I thought the or=
iginal=20
dream/vision -- shared by the three women and Hera -- was beautiful image=
ry.=20
=A0But as it began to play out, I thought two things:

1) If it was really planned in advance that that was how the opera house=20
dream was going to manifest in reality, they would have been someplace th=
at=20
looked a lot more like an opera house;

2) If it was really planned in advance and they were someplace that evoke=
d an=20
opera house much more effectively, they wouldn't have HAD to intercut wit=
h=20
the dream; it would have -- and should have -- been obvious to the regula=
r=20
viewers. =A0And would have _rewarded_ the regular viewers had it more clo=
sely=20
evoked the opera house scenes.

That, more than _anything_ in the finale, told me that this was very shod=
dily=20
patched together in the last few seasons, and that planning had flown out=
 the=20
window. =A0I mean, they had to bloody well hit us over the head with the=20
intercuts, right down to having Six and Baltar look up to the gallery and=
 see=20
the view of the Final Five with their faces silhouetted out in white.=20
=A0Sheesh!

And overall, the whole two hours felt kind of rushed and compressed to me=
. =20
It seemed like Moore wanted each character to get a big chunk of focus, b=
ut=20
he hadn't left enough time (2 hrs 11 mins) in which to do it.  Maybe he=20
should have said goodbye to a few characters in the preceding episodes, a=
nd=20
not tried to cram it all in to the last two hours.

Big disappointment from something that started out with such promise.  I =
can=20
remember first season, first _episode_, just looking at it and listening =
to=20
the dialogue, and saying, "Wow, they went to the Babylon 5 school of how =
to=20
make a tv sf series!  This is gonna be GREAT!"

Feh.

Amy
--=20
Ten Thousand Questions Blog:
A Question a Day for Journaling, Self-Discovery, and Transformation
"2009 is the Year of Questions"
tenthousandquestions.com


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From: vakie81 at gmail.com
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 05:19:04 -0700 (PDT)
Lines: 37

On 22 maalis, 04:11, Amy Guskin <aisl... at fjordstone.com> wrote:
> Feh.
>
> Amy
> --

Good points by Amy and all.

The flashbacks also kind of bothered me, in that they were too little
too late. Stuff like this should've been shown much earlier for it to
have impact at the end. Especially the Sharon "payback" to Adama comes
to mind. Maybe we've been spoiled by B5, with Londo talking about how
he and G'Kar were going to end up killing each other in the FIRST
episode of the series and then later following that up. The Sharon
flashback should've been introduced somewhere in the first season. But
it's obvious none of this was planned back then, and it was tacked on
at the end. It shows.

They made a good effort to tie it all up, but it wasn't entirely
convincing.

In the end, we have an example in B5 of the results you get when you
plan ahead. BSG shows what happens when you fly it by the seat of your
pants. "They have a plan", sure they do. =P

BTW, Hoshi had some screen time in the season 4 filler webseries, The
Face of the Enemy, where he was established to have a relationship
with Felix Gaeta.

I don't want to sound too negative, the show was good TV, better than
most.. but in the end it promised more than it gave.

I hope the people of Lost have planned more thoroughly.

vakie



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From: Amy Guskin <aisling at fjordstone.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 12:57:28 GMT
Lines: 26

>> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 08:19:04 -0400, thus spake vakie81 at gmail.com (in article 
<3050ca5a-7167-47a6-b185-8db724019c8f at h5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>):

> 
> BTW, Hoshi had some screen time in the season 4 filler webseries, The
> Face of the Enemy, where he was established to have a relationship
> with Felix Gaeta. <<

Ack, this makes it even worse!  And, this is a key reason why I hate 
peripheral content in other formats.  It's fine if it rewards viewers of it 
with little extras, but it shouldn't leave people who faithfully watched the 
entire _tv series_ -- which is what BSG was, after all, not a web series -- 
questioning large plot points.  And to me, the person chosen to be leader of 
the fleet is _huge_.

I happened to miss that webseries, probably because in between seasons of 
BSG, there is little to keep me watching the SciFi channel, so I must have 
missed the adverts for it.

Amy
-- 
Ten Thousand Questions Blog:
A Question a Day for Journaling, Self-Discovery, and Transformation
"2009 is the Year of Questions"
tenthousandquestions.com


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From: voxwoman <voxwoman at gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 07:33:30 -0700 (PDT)
Lines: 52

On Mar 22, 8:57=A0am, Amy Guskin <aisl... at fjordstone.com> wrote:
> >> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 08:19:04 -0400, thus spake vaki... at gmail.com (in a=
rticle
>
> <3050ca5a-7167-47a6-b185-8db724019... at h5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>):
>
>
>
> > BTW, Hoshi had some screen time in the season 4 filler webseries, The
> > Face of the Enemy, where he was established to have a relationship
> > with Felix Gaeta. <<
>
> Ack, this makes it even worse! =A0And, this is a key reason why I hate
> peripheral content in other formats. =A0It's fine if it rewards viewers o=
f it
> with little extras, but it shouldn't leave people who faithfully watched =
the
> entire _tv series_ -- which is what BSG was, after all, not a web series =
--
> questioning large plot points. =A0And to me, the person chosen to be lead=
er of
> the fleet is _huge_.
>
> I happened to miss that webseries, probably because in between seasons of
> BSG, there is little to keep me watching the SciFi channel, so I must hav=
e
> missed the adverts for it.
>
> Amy
> --
> Ten Thousand Questions Blog:
> A Question a Day for Journaling, Self-Discovery, and Transformation
> "2009 is the Year of Questions"
> tenthousandquestions.com

They usually toss them on the DVDs in the extras section. Amusingly
enough, while I have purchased all the DVDs as they are released, I
have only watched the first 2 seasons. Season 3, and 4.0+Razor are
still sitting in their shrink-wrap, because I just haven't been
interested in wading through them.

I will have to watch them anon, once the last half of this season has
been released. I think I need to go through the series in its entirety
without lengthy random breaks in the storytelling cycle to really get
annoyed about how they kept trying to write themselves out of corners.

If I ever have way too much time on my hands and some blazing fast
computers, I would think about how I'd re-edit the entire series, now
that all the puzzle pieces are in place.

-Wendy


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From: "Charlie E." <edmondson at ieee.org>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 00:39:13 GMT
Lines: 70

On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 07:33:30 -0700 (PDT), voxwoman
<voxwoman at gmail.com> wrote:

>On Mar 22, 8:57=A0am, Amy Guskin <aisl... at fjordstone.com> wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 08:19:04 -0400, thus spake vaki... at gmail.com (i=
n article
>>
>> <3050ca5a-7167-47a6-b185-8db724019... at h5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>):
>>
>>
>>
>> > BTW, Hoshi had some screen time in the season 4 filler webseries, Th=
e
>> > Face of the Enemy, where he was established to have a relationship
>> > with Felix Gaeta. <<
>>
>> Ack, this makes it even worse! =A0And, this is a key reason why I hate
>> peripheral content in other formats. =A0It's fine if it rewards viewer=
s of it
>> with little extras, but it shouldn't leave people who faithfully watch=
ed the
>> entire _tv series_ -- which is what BSG was, after all, not a web seri=
es --
>> questioning large plot points. =A0And to me, the person chosen to be l=
eader of
>> the fleet is _huge_.
>>
>> I happened to miss that webseries, probably because in between seasons=
 of
>> BSG, there is little to keep me watching the SciFi channel, so I must =
have
>> missed the adverts for it.
>>
>> Amy
>> --
>> Ten Thousand Questions Blog:
>> A Question a Day for Journaling, Self-Discovery, and Transformation
>> "2009 is the Year of Questions"
>> tenthousandquestions.com
>
>They usually toss them on the DVDs in the extras section. Amusingly
>enough, while I have purchased all the DVDs as they are released, I
>have only watched the first 2 seasons. Season 3, and 4.0+Razor are
>still sitting in their shrink-wrap, because I just haven't been
>interested in wading through them.
>
>I will have to watch them anon, once the last half of this season has
>been released. I think I need to go through the series in its entirety
>without lengthy random breaks in the storytelling cycle to really get
>annoyed about how they kept trying to write themselves out of corners.
>
>If I ever have way too much time on my hands and some blazing fast
>computers, I would think about how I'd re-edit the entire series, now
>that all the puzzle pieces are in place.
>
>-Wendy

Yeah, now that we have the full backstory, it would be nice to have
had that scene with Boomer in the first or second episode.  The
flashbacks in the strip club during the colony section, etc.  Also, to
have had boomer and the other later to be revealed cylons to have
given more respect to the final five, even though they didn't know who
they really were.

So, I guess Cavil was the second skinjob created?  And he killed
Starbuck's father and then banished the Five before they decanted the
rest of the skin jobs?????

Charlie


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From: Wes Struebing <strueb at carpedementem.org>
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 20:42:40 -0600
Lines: 11

On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 00:39:13 GMT, "Charlie E." <edmondson at ieee.org>
wrote:

<snip>
>
>So, I guess Cavil was the second skinjob created?  And he killed
>Starbuck's father and then banished the Five before they decanted the
>rest of the skin jobs?????
>
Speaking of which, why did Cavil commit cylonicide?


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From: Amy Guskin <aisling at fjordstone.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 03:06:05 GMT
Lines: 30

>> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 22:42:40 -0400, thus spake Wes Struebing (in article 
<pmtds4pg9ivummoqshebl9s4kjub972l14 at 4ax.com>):

> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 00:39:13 GMT, "Charlie E." <edmondson at ieee.org>
> wrote:
> 
> <snip>
>> 
>> So, I guess Cavil was the second skinjob created?  And he killed
>> Starbuck's father and then banished the Five before they decanted the
>> rest of the skin jobs?????
>> 
> Speaking of which, why did Cavil commit cylonicide? <<

Oh, yeah -- thanks for mentioning that.  That was another thing that didn't 
add up for me.  I don't _think_ that complete resurrection tech was sent 
before Tyrol severed the connection...and didn't the Colony ship blow up real 
good anyway, when the Raptor flying hot had a body shift and hit the 'fire' 
button?  So it's not like killing himself meant he was going to wake up in a 
resurrection bath.  So either the Fleet forces would kill him, or maybe they 
_wouldn't_.  But either way, killing himself made no sense.  Unless I missed 
something?  Anyone?

Amy
-- 
Ten Thousand Questions Blog:
A Question a Day for Journaling, Self-Discovery, and Transformation
"2009 is the Year of Questions"
tenthousandquestions.com


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From: npsdsa at yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 10:46:23 -0700 (PDT)
Lines: 42

On Mar 22, 11:06=A0pm, Amy Guskin <aisl... at fjordstone.com> wrote:
> >> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 22:42:40 -0400, thus spake Wes Struebing (in artic=
le
>
> <pmtds4pg9ivummoqshebl9s4kjub972... at 4ax.com>):
>
> > On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 00:39:13 GMT, "Charlie E." <edmond... at ieee.org>
> > wrote:
>
> > <snip>
>
> >> So, I guess Cavil was the second skinjob created? =A0And he killed
> >> Starbuck's father and then banished the Five before they decanted the
> >> rest of the skin jobs?????
>
> > Speaking of which, why did Cavil commit cylonicide? <<
>
> Oh, yeah -- thanks for mentioning that. =A0That was another thing that di=
dn't
> add up for me. =A0I don't _think_ that complete resurrection tech was sen=
t
> before Tyrol severed the connection...and didn't the Colony ship blow up =
real
> good anyway, when the Raptor flying hot had a body shift and hit the 'fir=
e'
> button? =A0So it's not like killing himself meant he was going to wake up=
 in a
> resurrection bath. =A0So either the Fleet forces would kill him, or maybe=
 they
> _wouldn't_. =A0But either way, killing himself made no sense. =A0Unless I=
 missed
> something? =A0Anyone?
>
Well written Amy.  You've saved me (and a few others) of typing it up
ourselves.
In the end I think we were all spoiled by B5.  It was a show with a
main story arc, but the week to week show was really about the journey
of the characters.  Moore mentioned "its about the characters stupid"
that in the special, unfortuneately he didn't really practice it as a
writer.  Oh well, it was still a good show.  It could have been a
great show though...sigh.


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: Amy Guskin <aisling at fjordstone.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:54:53 GMT
Lines: 89

>> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:46:23 -0400, thus spake npsdsa at yahoo.com (in ar=
ticle=20
<609cda1f-d767-49e5-9391-f7384fdb2730 at u39g2000pru.googlegroups.com>):

> On Mar 22, 11:06=A0pm, Amy Guskin <aisl... at fjordstone.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 22:42:40 -0400, thus spake Wes Struebing (in art=
icle
>>=20
>> <pmtds4pg9ivummoqshebl9s4kjub972... at 4ax.com>):
>>=20
>>> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 00:39:13 GMT, "Charlie E." <edmond... at ieee.org>
>>> wrote:
>>=20
>>> <snip>
>>=20
>>>> So, I guess Cavil was the second skinjob created? =A0And he killed
>>>> Starbuck's father and then banished the Five before they decanted th=
e
>>>> rest of the skin jobs?????
>>=20
>>> Speaking of which, why did Cavil commit cylonicide? <<
>>=20
>> Oh, yeah -- thanks for mentioning that. =A0That was another thing that=
 didn't
>> add up for me. =A0I don't _think_ that complete resurrection tech was =
sent
>> before Tyrol severed the connection...and didn't the Colony ship blow =
up=20
>> real
>> good anyway, when the Raptor flying hot had a body shift and hit the '=
fire'
>> button? =A0So it's not like killing himself meant he was going to wake=
 up in a
>> resurrection bath. =A0So either the Fleet forces would kill him, or ma=
ybe they
>> _wouldn't_. =A0But either way, killing himself made no sense. =A0Unles=
s I missed
>> something? =A0Anyone?
>>=20
> Well written Amy.  You've saved me (and a few others) of typing it up
> ourselves.
> In the end I think we were all spoiled by B5.  It was a show with a
> main story arc, but the week to week show was really about the journey
> of the characters.  Moore mentioned "its about the characters stupid"
> that in the special, unfortuneately he didn't really practice it as a
> writer.  Oh well, it was still a good show.  It could have been a
> great show though...sigh. <<

Thanks.

I've been having conversations with my local BSG-fan friends, and one of =
them=20
keeps insisting that the show was all about its themes, and the character=
s. =20
And that the characters were really well-written and acted.  As for the=20
latter, I'd think we should expect that on _any_ tv show.

As for the former, IMHO, it's a total cop-out.  Writing 101 tells us that=
 a=20
story consists of characters, setting, and PLOT.  I really think Ron Moor=
e=20
got very lazy with his plotting.  So many message boards out there are fi=
lled=20
with comments like, "So what, it wasn't the best episode, and was filled =
with=20
plot holes?  It's still a great series, and you should just appreciate it=
!" =20
If I read a book that was chugging along great (mostly), and then the end=
ing=20
sucked, I wouldn't think it was a good book.  If the last episode of Baby=
lon=20
5 was an hour-long explanation of how the entire series was merely the fe=
ver=20
dream of a large, pink, fluffy bunny who lived on the back of a turtle, I=
=20
wouldn't think it was a good series.

For me, what it boils down to is: would I watch it again?  With BSG, sadl=
y, I=20
have to say "no," because I don't ever want to experience that colossal=20
disappointment again.

Amy
--=20
Ten Thousand Questions Blog:
A Question a Day for Journaling, Self-Discovery, and Transformation
"2009 is the Year of Questions"
tenthousandquestions.com


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: Elko T <etchernev at acm.org>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:45:30 -0400
Lines: 13

Amy Guskin wrote:
> 
> If the last episode of Babylon 
> 5 was an hour-long explanation of how the entire series was merely the fever 
> dream of a large, pink, fluffy bunny who lived on the back of a turtle, I 
> wouldn't think it was a good series.
> 
     Hey! What about the "no story ideas" rule? And from you, no less... 
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

:)



=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: Amy Guskin <aisling at fjordstone.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 00:41:39 GMT
Lines: 30

>> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:45:30 -0400, thus spake Elko T (in article 
<49C7F4EA.6040202 at acm.org>):

> Amy Guskin wrote:
>> 
>> If the last episode of Babylon 
>> 5 was an hour-long explanation of how the entire series was merely the 
>> fever 
>> dream of a large, pink, fluffy bunny who lived on the back of a turtle, I 
>> wouldn't think it was a good series.
>> 
>      Hey! What about the "no story ideas" rule? And from you, no less... 
> Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? <<

Tell ya what, if JMS comes onto this thread and says, "Damn...," and 
specifically references the above as the cause of his "Damn...," _and_ says 
that it's because he was thinking of doing that as a B5 story (either in 
book, movie, or tv format)...AND he is being serious...I'll eat my hat.  My 
moldy, century-old silk top hat.  And film it to upload onto YouTube.  And 
post the link here.

:-p

Amy
-- 
Ten Thousand Questions Blog:
A Question a Day for Journaling, Self-Discovery, and Transformation
"2009 is the Year of Questions"
tenthousandquestions.com


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: "jmsatb5 at aol.com" <jmsatb5 at aol.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 22:57:57 -0700 (PDT)
Lines: 36

On Mar 23, 5:41=A0pm, Amy Guskin <aisl... at fjordstone.com> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:45:30 -0400, thus spake Elko T (in article
>
> <49C7F4EA.6040... at acm.org>):
>
> > Amy Guskin wrote:
>
> >> If the last episode of Babylon
> >> 5 was an hour-long explanation of how the entire series was merely the
> >> fever
> >> dream of a large, pink, fluffy bunny who lived on the back of a turtle=
, I
> >> wouldn't think it was a good series.
>
> > =A0 =A0 =A0Hey! What about the "no story ideas" rule? And from you, no =
less...
> > Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? <<
>
> Tell ya what, if JMS comes onto this thread and says, "Damn...," and
> specifically references the above as the cause of his "Damn...," _and_ sa=
ys
> that it's because he was thinking of doing that as a B5 story (either in
> book, movie, or tv format)...AND he is being serious...I'll eat my hat. =
=A0My
> moldy, century-old silk top hat. =A0And film it to upload onto YouTube. =
=A0And
> post the link here.
>
> :-p
>
> Amy

Well, shit...well, there goes the next Forbidden Planet draft...

jms