JMS on Compuserve: October 4, 1995 (Slight Spoiler for Final Four here...)
B5JMS Poster
b5jms-owner at shekel.mcl.cs.columbia.edu
Thu Oct 19 06:33:08 EDT 1995
+ 1: Oct 4, 1995: denebeim at deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
2: Oct 5, 1995: faa35 at dial.pipex.com (Jeannette Simpson)
3: Oct 5, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
4: Oct 5, 1995: The Green Meddler <kilgalen at tde.com>
5: Oct 5, 1995: The Green Meddler <kilgalen at tde.com>
6: Oct 5, 1995: jegolf at MCS.COM (J.M.Egolf)
7: Oct 5, 1995: hackbod at ada.CS.ORST.EDU (Dianne Hackborn)
8: Oct 5, 1995: daveshao at leland.Stanford.EDU (David Shao)
9: Oct 5, 1995: faa35 at dial.pipex.com (Jeannette Simpson)
10: Oct 5, 1995: corun at access2.digex.net (Corun MacAnndra)
11: Oct 6, 1995: jegolf at MCS.COM (J.M.Egolf)
12: Oct 6, 1995: raasch at roses (Christine Raasch)
13: Oct 6, 1995: navoff at xnet.com (J. Potts)
14: Oct 6, 1995: navoff at xnet.com (J. Potts)
15: Oct 6, 1995: faa35 at dial.pipex.com (Jeannette Simpson)
16: Oct 6, 1995: vinay at cc.gatech.edu (Vinay Pandey)
17: Oct 6, 1995: AltaB at ix.netcom.com (Alta Brewer)
18: Oct 6, 1995: Robin.Bornoff at brunel.ac.uk (Robin B Bornoff)
19: Oct 6, 1995: AltaB at ix.netcom.com (Alta Brewer)
20: Oct 6, 1995: jthorpe1 at cc.swarthmore.edu (jere7my tho?rpe)
21: Oct 6, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
22: Oct 6, 1995: faa35 at dial.pipex.com (Jeannette Simpson)
23: Oct 6, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
24: Oct 6, 1995: l.c.wright at rl.ac.uk (Lesley Wright)
25: Oct 6, 1995: The Green Meddler <kilgalen at tde.com>
26: Oct 6, 1995: denebeim at deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
27: Oct 6, 1995: AltaB at ix.netcom.com (Alta Brewer)
28: Oct 6, 1995: Robert Holland <rholland at triton.mayfield.hp.com>
29: Oct 6, 1995: Paul Skaggs <pskaggs at bnr.ca>
30: Oct 6, 1995: romana at copland.udel.edu (Laura Jane Swanson)
+ 31: Oct 6, 1995: lkabuaba at woodlawn.uchicago.edu (Virago)
* 32: Oct 6, 1995: straczynski at genie.geis.com
33: Oct 7, 1995: jegolf at MCS.COM (J.M.Egolf)
34: Oct 7, 1995: faa35 at dial.pipex.com (Jeannette Simpson)
35: Oct 7, 1995: faa35 at dial.pipex.com (Jeannette Simpson)
36: Oct 7, 1995: Robert Holland <rholland at triton.mayfield.hp.com>
37: Oct 7, 1995: jegolf at MCS.COM (J.M.Egolf)
38: Oct 7, 1995: jegolf at MCS.COM (J.M.Egolf)
39: Oct 7, 1995: robertm at jagunet.com (Robert Merritt)
40: Oct 7, 1995: kingpin at primenet.com (Michael J. King Sr.)
41: Oct 7, 1995: szgilalu at cassatt.ucdavis.edu ()
42: Oct 7, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
43: Oct 7, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
44: Oct 7, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
45: Oct 7, 1995: faa35 at dial.pipex.com (Jeannette Simpson)
46: Oct 7, 1995: cathyf at windrose.rice.edu (Catherine A. Foulston)
47: Oct 7, 1995: The Green Meddler <kilgalen at tde.com>
48: Oct 7, 1995: "Julian P. Graham" <jpgraham at starfury.demon.co.uk>
49: Oct 7, 1995: jegolf at MCS.COM (J.M.Egolf)
50: Oct 7, 1995: ian spedding <I-52 at sulaea.demon.co.uk>
51: Oct 7, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
52: Oct 8, 1995: raasch at roses (Christine Raasch)
53: Oct 8, 1995: denebeim at deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
54: Oct 8, 1995: denebeim at deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
55: Oct 8, 1995: denebeim at deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
+ 56: Oct 8, 1995: niffer at Glue.umd.edu (Jennifer J. Chandler)
* 57: Oct 8, 1995: straczynski at genie.geis.com
58: Oct 8, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
59: Oct 8, 1995: The Green Meddler <kilgalen at tde.com>
60: Oct 8, 1995: vinay at cc.gatech.edu (Vinay Pandey)
61: Oct 8, 1995: denebeim at deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
62: Oct 8, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
63: Oct 8, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
64: Oct 8, 1995: AltaB at ix.netcom.com (Alta Brewer)
65: Oct 8, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
66: Oct 8, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
67: Oct 9, 1995: denebeim at deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
68: Oct 9, 1995: kdthomas at netcom.com (Kim Thomas)
69: Oct 9, 1995: Robert Holland <rholland at triton.mayfield.hp.com>
70: Oct 9, 1995: jthorpe1 at cc.swarthmore.edu (jere7my tho?rpe)
71: Oct 9, 1995: jthorpe1 at cc.swarthmore.edu (jere7my tho?rpe)
72: Oct 9, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
73: Oct 9, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
74: Oct 9, 1995: sjs16 at itri.bton.ac.uk (Simon John Shurville)
75: Oct 9, 1995: hummel at netcom.com (Franklin Hummel)
76: Oct 9, 1995: denebeim at deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
77: Oct 9, 1995: faa35 at dial.pipex.com (Jeannette Simpson)
78: Oct 9, 1995: scphill at ibm.net
79: Oct 9, 1995: scphill at ibm.net
80: Oct 9, 1995: scphill at ibm.net
81: Oct 9, 1995: scphill at ibm.net
82: Oct 9, 1995: brauchfu at fiw149.fm.intel.com (Brian Rauchfuss - PCD)
83: Oct 9, 1995: scphill at ibm.net
84: Oct 9, 1995: Teresa Hehir <Teresa at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
85: Oct 9, 1995: jegolf at xnet.com (J.M.Egolf)
86: Oct 9, 1995: ian spedding <I-52 at sulaea.demon.co.uk>
87: Oct 9, 1995: AltaB at ix.netcom.com (Alta Brewer)
88: Oct 10, 1995: jegolf at xnet.com (J.M.Egolf)
89: Oct 10, 1995: navoff at xnet.com (J. Potts)
90: Oct 10, 1995: jegolf at xnet.com (J.M.Egolf)
91: Oct 10, 1995: hackbod at ada.CS.ORST.EDU (Dianne Hackborn)
92: Oct 10, 1995: hackbod at ada.CS.ORST.EDU (Dianne Hackborn)
93: Oct 10, 1995: denebeim at deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
94: Oct 10, 1995: denebeim at deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
95: Oct 10, 1995: denebeim at deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
96: Oct 10, 1995: hackbod at ada.CS.ORST.EDU (Dianne Hackborn)
97: Oct 10, 1995: Hilarie Berzins <nick at sabcomm.demon.co.uk>
98: Oct 10, 1995: colin at callisto.pas.rochester.edu (colin sebastian roald)
99: Oct 10, 1995: scphill at ibm.net
100: Oct 10, 1995: kennedy@ (John W Kennedy)
101: Oct 10, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
102: Oct 10, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
103: Oct 10, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
104: Oct 10, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
105: Oct 10, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
106: Oct 10, 1995: The Green Meddler <kilgalen at tde.com>
107: Oct 10, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
108: Oct 10, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
109: Oct 10, 1995: denebeim at deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
110: Oct 10, 1995: frankel at ccisd3.ccf.org (David Frankel )
111: Oct 10, 1995: scottm at leapfrog.almac.co.uk (Malinda)
112: Oct 10, 1995: Robert Holland <rholland at triton.mayfield.hp.com>
113: Oct 10, 1995: romana at copland.udel.edu (Laura Jane Swanson)
114: Oct 10, 1995: nathan at cco.caltech.edu (Nathan Mates)
115: Oct 10, 1995: faa35 at dial.pipex.com (Jeannette Simpson)
116: Oct 11, 1995: navoff at xnet.com (J. Potts)
117: Oct 11, 1995: Paul Skaggs <pskaggs at bnr.ca>
118: Oct 11, 1995: jegolf at MCS.COM (J.M.Egolf)
119: Oct 11, 1995: spp at icarus.sunfire.com (Stephen P Potter)
120: Oct 11, 1995: Teresa Hehir <Teresa at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
121: Oct 11, 1995: faa35 at dial.pipex.com (Jeannette Simpson)
122: Oct 11, 1995: faa35 at dial.pipex.com (Jeannette Simpson)
123: Oct 11, 1995: David John Patrick <spsptrck at reading.ac.uk>
124: Oct 11, 1995: Hilarie Berzins <nick at sabcomm.demon.co.uk>
125: Oct 11, 1995: zafaran at aol.com (Zafaran)
126: Oct 11, 1995: zafaran at aol.com (Zafaran)
127: Oct 11, 1995: zafaran at aol.com (Zafaran)
128: Oct 11, 1995: zafaran at aol.com (Zafaran)
129: Oct 11, 1995: sjs16 at itri.bton.ac.uk (Simon John Shurville)
130: Oct 11, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
131: Oct 11, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
132: Oct 11, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
133: Oct 11, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
134: Oct 11, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
135: Oct 11, 1995: jegolf at MCS.COM (J.M.Egolf)
136: Oct 11, 1995: jegolf at MCS.COM (J.M.Egolf)
137: Oct 11, 1995: scphill at ibm.net
138: Oct 11, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
139: Oct 11, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
140: Oct 11, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
141: Oct 11, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
142: Oct 11, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
143: Oct 11, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
144: Oct 11, 1995: sjs16 at itri.bton.ac.uk (Simon John Shurville)
145: Oct 11, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
146: Oct 11, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
147: Oct 11, 1995: denebeim at deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
148: Oct 11, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
149: Oct 11, 1995: denebeim at deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
150: Oct 11, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
151: Oct 11, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
152: Oct 11, 1995: denebeim at deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
153: Oct 11, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
154: Oct 11, 1995: faa35 at dial.pipex.com (Jeannette Simpson)
155: Oct 11, 1995: abraham at dina.kvl.dk (Per Abrahamsen)
156: Oct 11, 1995: kennedy@ (John W Kennedy)
157: Oct 11, 1995: Teresa Hehir <Teresa at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
158: Oct 11, 1995: brauchfu at frx449.intel.com (Brian Rauchfuss - PCD)
159: Oct 11, 1995: Teresa Hehir <Teresa at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
160: Oct 11, 1995: denebeim at deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
161: Oct 11, 1995: nimue at cix.compulink.co.uk ("Vivienne Oregan")
162: Oct 11, 1995: jegolf at MCS.COM (J.M.Egolf)
163: Oct 11, 1995: faa35 at dial.pipex.com (Jeannette Simpson)
164: Oct 11, 1995: faa35 at dial.pipex.com (Jeannette Simpson)
165: Oct 11, 1995: lcrawfor at wittenberg.edu (Crawf)
166: Oct 11, 1995: lkabuaba at quads.uchicago.edu (Virago)
167: Oct 12, 1995: Robert Holland <rholland at triton.mayfield.hp.com>
168: Oct 12, 1995: denebeim at deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
169: Oct 12, 1995: jalmatom at wco.com (James Shearhart)
170: Oct 12, 1995: hackbod at ada.CS.ORST.EDU (Dianne Hackborn)
171: Oct 12, 1995: Hilarie Berzins <nick at sabcomm.demon.co.uk>
172: Oct 12, 1995: zafaran at aol.com (Zafaran)
173: Oct 12, 1995: zafaran at aol.com (Zafaran)
174: Oct 12, 1995: jegolf at MCS.COM (J.M.Egolf)
175: Oct 12, 1995: jegolf at xnet.com (J.M.Egolf)
176: Oct 12, 1995: Chuck_A._Becker at pol.org (Chuck A. Becker)
177: Oct 12, 1995: ybennett at bev.net (Yvonne Bennett)
178: Oct 12, 1995: sjs16 at itri.bton.ac.uk (Simon John Shurville)
179: Oct 12, 1995: The Green Meddler <kilgalen at tde.com>
180: Oct 12, 1995: The Green Meddler <kilgalen at tde.com>
181: Oct 12, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
182: Oct 12, 1995: g0ski at mikefoy.demon.co.uk (Michael J. Foy)
183: Oct 12, 1995: Robert Holland <rholland at triton.mayfield.hp.com>
184: Oct 12, 1995: "Julian P. Graham" <jpgraham at starfury.demon.co.uk>
185: Oct 12, 1995: denebeim at deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
186: Oct 12, 1995: bruceab at teleport.com (Bruce Baugh)
187: Oct 12, 1995: faa35 at dial.pipex.com (Jeannette Simpson)
188: Oct 12, 1995: faa35 at dial.pipex.com (Jeannette Simpson)
189: Oct 13, 1995: "Julian P. Graham" <jpgraham at starfury.demon.co.uk>
190: Oct 13, 1995: jegolf at xnet.com (J.M.Egolf)
191: Oct 13, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
192: Oct 13, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
193: Oct 13, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
194: Oct 13, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
195: Oct 13, 1995: zafaran at aol.com (Zafaran)
196: Oct 13, 1995: csjjh at news.cts.eiu.edu (Jonathan J. Hunt)
197: Oct 13, 1995: faa35 at dial.pipex.com (Jeannette Simpson)
198: Oct 13, 1995: Robert Holland <rholland at triton.mayfield.hp.com>
199: Oct 13, 1995: faa35 at dial.pipex.com (Jeannette Simpson)
200: Oct 13, 1995: hardin at ee.ualberta.ca (Hardin Brett Arvid)
201: Oct 13, 1995: Teresa Hehir <Teresa at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
202: Oct 13, 1995: g0ski at mikefoy.demon.co.uk (Michael J. Foy)
203: Oct 13, 1995: jegolf at MCS.COM (J.M.Egolf)
204: Oct 13, 1995: "Julian P. Graham" <jpgraham at starfury.demon.co.uk>
205: Oct 13, 1995: faa35 at dial.pipex.com (Jeannette Simpson)
206: Oct 13, 1995: scphill at ibm.net
207: Oct 13, 1995: scphill at ibm.net
208: Oct 13, 1995: scphill at ibm.net
209: Oct 13, 1995: scphill at ibm.net
210: Oct 13, 1995: wguynes at arn.net (William Guynes)
211: Oct 13, 1995: Robert Holland <rholland at triton.mayfield.hp.com>
212: Oct 13, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
213: Oct 13, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
214: Oct 13, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
215: Oct 14, 1995: denebeim at deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
216: Oct 14, 1995: denebeim at deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
217: Oct 14, 1995: sjs16 at itri.bton.ac.uk (Simon John Shurville)
218: Oct 14, 1995: ian spedding <I-52 at sulaea.demon.co.uk>
219: Oct 14, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
220: Oct 14, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
221: Oct 14, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
222: Oct 14, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
223: Oct 14, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
224: Oct 14, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
225: Oct 14, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
226: Oct 14, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
227: Oct 14, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
228: Oct 14, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
229: Oct 14, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
230: Oct 14, 1995: scphill at ibm.net
231: Oct 14, 1995: sbrowett at internet-eireann.ie (Stephen Browett)
232: Oct 14, 1995: jegolf at MCS.COM (J.M.Egolf)
233: Oct 15, 1995: denebeim at deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
234: Oct 15, 1995: denebeim at deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
235: Oct 15, 1995: faa35 at dial.pipex.com (Jeannette Simpson)
236: Oct 15, 1995: navoff at xnet.com (J. Potts)
237: Oct 15, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
238: Oct 15, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
239: Oct 15, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
240: Oct 15, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
241: Oct 15, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
242: Oct 15, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
243: Oct 15, 1995: navoff at xnet.com (J. Potts)
244: Oct 15, 1995: zafaran at aol.com (Zafaran)
245: Oct 15, 1995: zafaran at aol.com (Zafaran)
246: Oct 15, 1995: "Julian P. Graham" <jpgraham at starfury.demon.co.uk>
247: Oct 15, 1995: faa35 at dial.pipex.com (Jeannette Simpson)
248: Oct 15, 1995: hackbod at ada.CS.ORST.EDU (Dianne Hackborn)
249: Oct 15, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
250: Oct 16, 1995: dubost at sna.com (Michael Dubost)
251: Oct 16, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
252: Oct 16, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
253: Oct 16, 1995: goldfarb at csua.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
254: Oct 16, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
255: Oct 16, 1995: zafaran at aol.com (Zafaran)
256: Oct 16, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
257: Oct 16, 1995: strueb at aol.com (Strueb)
258: Oct 16, 1995: jegolf at xnet.com (J.M.Egolf)
259: Oct 16, 1995: flory at uicc.com (Dennis Flory)
260: Oct 16, 1995: empp1 at cus.cam.ac.uk (E.M.P. Pringle)
261: Oct 16, 1995: Teresa Hehir <Teresa at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
262: Oct 16, 1995: Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk>
263: Oct 17, 1995: sjs16 at itri.bton.ac.uk (Simon John Shurville)
264: Oct 17, 1995: sjs16 at itri.bton.ac.uk (Simon John Shurville)
265: Oct 17, 1995: scphill at ibm.net
266: Oct 17, 1995: scphill at ibm.net
267: Oct 17, 1995: scphill at ibm.net
268: Oct 17, 1995: scphill at ibm.net
269: Oct 17, 1995: "Julian P. Graham" <jpgraham at starfury.demon.co.uk>
270: Oct 18, 1995: dubost at sna.com (Michael Dubost)
271: Oct 18, 1995: denebeim at deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
272: Oct 18, 1995: Hilarie Berzins <nick at sabcomm.demon.co.uk>
+273: Oct 18, 1995: hackbod at ada.CS.ORST.EDU (Dianne Hackborn)
*274: Oct 18, 1995: straczynski at genie.geis.com
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From: denebeim at deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
Lines: 20
In article <44ubi1$37d at tde2.tde.com>,
The Green Meddler <kilgalen at tde.com> wrote:
By the way, thank you for taking the time to post these.
>From: J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#354530
> The favor is called in in season three, in one of the earlier
> episodes. It may surprise you....
So, anyone want to make some bets on this one?
I personally think Londo is gonna come crawling back to the fold.
"I've been a bad boy, please help me..."
Jay
--
Sig under construction
Jay Denebeim denebeim at deepthot.cary.nc.us
duke!wolves!deepthot!denebeim
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From: lkabuaba at woodlawn.uchicago.edu (Virago)
Lines: 91
In article <4525r4$bfc at flood.xnet.com>, J. Potts <navoff at xnet.com> wrote:
>Some spoiler space for "Comes the Inquisitor".....
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>In article <451uej$dko at Venus.mcs.com>, J.M.Egolf <jegolf at MCS.COM> wrote:
>>jegolf at MCS.COM (J.M.Egolf) wrote:
>>>Sebastian (male) was trying to insist that Delenn (female) was fulfilling
>>>pre-set roles. Her struggle to have him perceive her as a person, not a
>>>role (even one she supposedly chose) had emotional resonance for me. He
>>>was accusing her of collaborating with her oppressors -- another
>>>accusation that has emotional resonance more for women (IMHO) than for
>>>men. The phrase "sleeping with the enemy" more often refers to women than
>>>men. Women are more likely to be involved and to remain in an abusive
>>>heterosexual relationship than men. etc. etc.
>>
>>In article <451f3q$1o at soap.news>,
>>Jeannette Simpson <faa35 at dial.pipex.com> wrote:
>>>Come to think of it, you may have a point here. I wrote a poem when I
>>>was about 14 years old which ended with the words, "Go find out what
>>>you are, don't tell me what I am." Strange that. I remember always
>>>being frustrated and angered by the attempts of adults to force me
>>>into a socially accepted role as a young female.
>>
>>My mother and I used to have these arguments, when I was a teenager:
>>She'd object to something I'd done by saying, "But you can't *do* that!
>>GIRLS don't *do* that!" To which I'd reply, "Then fine, I'm not a girl."
>>
>>I mean, If A then B, if B then C, if A then C -- and I'd already done it.
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>Hmmm, I guess that's where you and I differ. I was never told I couldn't
>do something because I was female. But then I've also had some very
>strong female role models. My paternal grandmother, widowed and with
>2 children, moved half way across the country, away from everyone and
>everything she had known to raise my father and his sister by herself.
>This was back in the 1920's. My mother was also a great one for tackling
>whatever project took her fancy, regardless of whether it was "appropriate"
>for a woman. She and I managed our small farm by ourselves for the nine
>months my father had before retirement in another state. If there was
>a book in the library explaining how to do something, she was set. *I*
>decide what I want to do, who I want to be and I've never felt trapped
>or forced into someone else's idea of what I *should* be.
>
That's wonderful.
I have never met a single person, male or female, who could honestly say
"I've never felt trapped or forced into someone else's idea of what I
*should* be." I know people who have escaped traps like that, but I
didn't think it was possible to avoid them entirely. If you're telling
the truth, you are an amazingly lucky person, with parents and teachers
of superhuman wisdom and restraint. Be thankful. And don't mistake other
people's misfortune for weakness.
I have to say, though, it wasn't the actual questioning in "Comes the
Inquisitor" that got me in the gut. The male perception/female role
thing didn't even occur to me; I just saw Sebastian punishing Delenn for
his own failures, and I suppose it's possible to make a m/f thing out of
that too, but I'm not going to. My problem is the Vorlons. They're the
ones who set a psychopath like that on Delenn, who agreed to it, and
Sheridan, who didn't. That kind of arrogance is what gets me. This too has
male/female overtones, but it's more of a parent/child or experienced
guide/newbie thing; any relationship where you need someone who is
more powerful or experienced than you. No matter how kind the more
powerful person is, there's going to be a certain amount of resentment
on the part of the weaker one. And when the stronger party is arrogant
and impassive... well, I identified with both Delenn and Sheridan. And I
was left with the strong urge to kick Kosh's ass. I think they were
too. And I think there's some resentment and frustration there that
wasn't there before.
The Vorlons are not benevolent. We do not have a relationship between
equals. We need them to fight against the Shadows. This galls. I think
it will continue to until they leave or we break with them.
--
Ligia Abuabara
lkabuaba at midway.uchicago.edu
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: straczynski at genie.geis.com
Lines: 13
Of course, bear in mind that there *is* no correct answer to
Sebastian's question...because no matter what answer you give, the
question will be repeated. It's a process, not a goal, designed to
tear down the artifices we construct around ourselves until we're left
facing ourselves, not our roles. At some point the "answer," such as it
is, must transcend language.
Since the episode aired, I've received many notes from philosophy
teachers and religious instructors and those who ran the Synanon game
noting that they've used that technique as well, or intend to do so from
now on.
jms
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: niffer at Glue.umd.edu (Jennifer J. Chandler)
Lines: 19
In article <199510062334.AA283722486 at relay1.geis.com>,
<straczynski at genie.geis.com> wrote:
> Of course, bear in mind that there *is* no correct answer to
>Sebastian's question...because no matter what answer you give, the
>question will be repeated. It's a process, not a goal, designed to
>tear down the artifices we construct around ourselves until we're left
>facing ourselves, not our roles. At some point the "answer," such as it
>is, must transcend language.
>
> Since the episode aired, I've received many notes from philosophy
>teachers and religious instructors and those who ran the Synanon game
>noting that they've used that technique as well, or intend to do so from
>now on.
>
> jms
It struck me as being a lot like a Scientology Audit, with a short-circuiting
E-meter. :-)
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: straczynski at genie.geis.com
Lines: 6
BTW, to Jeannette, Laura, JM Egolf, Sarah, all the others, thanks
for openly discussing what are surely difficult issues; it's been very
instructive, and helpful for the future. And the discussion itself has
been moving and insightful; thanks for risking and giving in this way.
jms
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: hackbod at ada.CS.ORST.EDU (Dianne Hackborn)
Lines: 26
Hark! The herald faa35 at dial.pipex.com posts:
| Morgan <Morgan at sidhen.demon.co.uk> wrote:
|
| >You know...jeanette starts a lot of things....big grin..still waiting for the
| >poem about Ivanova for Dianne... ;)
|
| Sorry. Strictly hetero. I'm afraid my mind/imagination doesn't work
| that way. Anyway, Dianne is *quite* capable of doing her own poem, I
| think :-)
There once was a dom named Susan
Who Talia feared she was losin'
They did it all night
In the line of sight
Now Susan's the one who is bruisin'!
<shudder> No, I think poems are hopeless. I -do- have some erotica up on
my Web page, though -- one straight [abeit SM], and one gay male lifted
from this very newsgroup. No lesbian ones, though. Go figure. :p
-------------------------+--------------------------------------------------
__ Dianne Kyra Hackborn | "What's the ugliest part of your body? Some say
\/ Oregon State Univ. | your nose, some say your toes, but I think it's
hackbod at cs.orst.edu | your mind."
CS Graduate Submissive | -- Frank Zappa
<URL:http://www.cs.orst.edu/~hackbod/>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: straczynski at genie.geis.com
Lines: 33
Jamie: I don't consider myself an "abuse survivor." I think that
term has been so over-used, exploited and trivialized in some corners by
application to the smallest of problems ("My father once hit me when I
was 12 so now I'm an axe murderer/going through regression therapy in
search of one more time when it might've happened") that it takes away
from people who've had terrible, mind-bendingly awful backgrounds with
serious personal violence, sexual violation, psychological torture and
other aberrations. I'll probably get roasted for this, but it does seem
to me that talking about one's "abusive childhood" has become the newest
trend, and one more way of denying personal responsibility for who one is
and what one does...and, ultimately, detracts from the attention and
needs and real problems of those who *have* suffered terribly.
Yeah, I had a crummy childhood, followed by a crummy adolescence;
vast sections of it were a nightmare. Fundamentally...so what? I never
considered that anyone's had a Leave It To Beaver childhood. Some were
better, some were worse. Doesn't mean I still don't get pissed about it,
doesn't make me any more willing to have contact with my family, but I
have never considered myself in the light of those two words. That, to
me, is one more manifestation of the victim mentality that seems to be
all OVER the place.
People spend too much time finding other people to blame, too much
energy finding excuses for not being what they are capable of being, and
not enough energy putting themselves on the line, growing out of the past,
and getting on with their lives.
And, again, I *very carefully and specifically* exclude from this
discussion, and the preceding paragraph, those who've gone through true,
serious abuse in childhood, who must spend years rebuilding their lives
and their trust and their emotional infrastructure.
jms
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