Little Boxes (was Re: Women and B5)

[B5JMS Poster]

Subject: Little Boxes (was Re: Women and B5)
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 No. | DATE        |  FROM
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s  1: Dec 15, 1996: kay.shapero at salata.com (Kay Shapero)
+  2: Dec 16, 1996: Oster <oster at cyberspace.com>
*  3: Dec 16, 1996: jmsatb5 at aol.com (Jms at B5)

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From: kay.shapero at salata.com (Kay Shapero)
Lines: 54

On <Dec 12 14:05>, schillin at spock.usc.edu (John Schilling) wrote;
References: <58puvu$7o7 at spock.usc.edu> 
..<58igeb$etp at dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com><58n9ku$ph9 at tofu.alt.net> 
..<58ne88$e4u at sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com><corteseE29v7y.BLF at netcom.com>

 JS>You seem to be suggesting that a nervous breakdown is a luxury to 
 JS>which a person might be entitled, but which they can if necessary chose
 
  JS>to avoid or overcome by Trying Real Hard Because It's Important.  I 
 JS>don't know about the Minbari, but people don't work that way.  
 JS>Accumulated stress can, and sooner or later *will*, bring down 
 JS>*anyone*.  No matter their strength of will or character, no matter 
 JS>how important it is that they not fail.  

{and so on}

Well put.  "When all this is over I'm having a nervous breakdown.  I've 
earned it, I deserve it, and nothing is going to deprive me of it!" is a 
joke; real life isn't nearly that neat.

The rest of this is not directed to you, as I'd say you already know it.  
It's just something sparked by what you said, and by the conversation in 
general.

All of which points out something I've noticed a lot of lately, and by no 
means only in here.  There's a tendancy to put things, be they characters 
or plotlines into neat little boxes and then get upset when they stray out 
of them.  For example, the "strong woman character" box.  Delenn's been a 
major target for awhile now.  First there was "Strong women don't have love 
lives so how dare she and Sheridan fall in love".  Then, after awhile when 
they get used to the idea it's "Ok, so strong women may fall in love but 
they stay dignified so how dare she flirt outrageously with Sheridan".  
Which, speaking from personal experience is horsehocky (heck, *I* flirt 
outrageously with my mate, and have for years. :->.  Call me a fluffhead 
and I've got plenty of references available to laugh themselves silly at 
the concept.)  That one's still going on, along with the one you point out.  
Sorry, strong women can have nervous breakdowns just like everybody else.  
Oh yeah, and strong women aren't supposed to have to get drunk to survive 
the night so how dare Ivanova do so.  Even though she manifestly keeps the 
station going just fine, thank you.  (Hmm... wonder if this is left over 
from the days of "strong woman = synthetic strong man" and therefore must 
meet the stereotypes of same.  Well, except for falling in love with a 
woman - oops, there goes Ivanova crawling out of that little box again. 
:->)

And then there's the plot - "The Vorlons are the Good Guys so how dare they 
start blowing up planets!"  Or "This is supposed to be about Good and Evil 
so how DARE JMS start mixing the categories"?  And so forth.

Thing is, if you think you know what's going on and then something else 
happens, it might be better to credit your expectations with being off than 
to castigate the author for writing his own story; not the one you 
expected. 


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From: Oster <oster at cyberspace.com>
Lines: 30

<snip>

> All of which points out something I've noticed a lot of lately, and by no 
> means only in here.  There's a tendancy to put things, be they characters 
> or plotlines into neat little boxes and then get upset when they stray out 
> of them.  For example, the "strong woman character" box.  Delenn's been a 
> major target for awhile now.  

<snip>
> And then there's the plot - "The Vorlons are the Good Guys so how dare they 
> start blowing up planets!"  Or "This is supposed to be about Good and Evil 
> so how DARE JMS start mixing the categories"?  And so forth.
> 
> Thing is, if you think you know what's going on and then something else 
> happens, it might be better to credit your expectations with being off than 
> to castigate the author for writing his own story; not the one you 
> expected. 


Hear! Hear!  I love reading this newsgroup, but I am also amazed how so
many people feel the need to compartmentalize everything.  Things in life
rarely fit into nice neat little categories.  There are rarely purely good
guys or bad guys, or stong women versus weak women.  We are all generally
mixtures of things.  I really enjoy how Babylon 5 reflects that, and that
a woman who is considered "strong" can show weakness and a species that is
considered "good" can do "evil."  

-Oster   



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From: jmsatb5 at aol.com (Jms at B5)
Lines: 14

All of which is, of course, the irony in the situation...many times, fans
ask for shows with colors other than black and white, shades of grey,
changes in character...but when you start executing those changes, showing
more than one side, even contradictory sides (as humans are masses of
internal contradictions) often some of them yell "HEY! STOP THAT!"  

Which goes back to the moral: "Be careful what you ask for."


 jms




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