Serious nitpicks for WWE Part One

[B5JMS Poster]

Subject: Serious nitpicks for WWE Part One
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 No. | DATE        |  FROM
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+  1: May 15, 1996: tmclean at chat.carleton.ca (Tom McLean)
+  3: May 15, 1996: Louis-Dominique Dubeau <ldd at step.polymtl.ca>
*  4: May 15, 1996: jmsatb5 at aol.com (Jms at B5)

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From: tmclean at chat.carleton.ca (Tom McLean)
Lines: 96

Spoilers for WWE Part One
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	I don't usually take the time to criticize B5 episodes, but I
found this one to be replete with inconsistancies.  Most of the nits that
are inconsistancies I perceive, however, are most likely misunderstandings
or just plain wrong, so I guess I'll rely on the know-it-alls to explain
it to me. 

1) Assuming the present is the time period during which we watch Babylon 5
and the period we saw at the beginning of the WWE episode, does the
possible fall of B5 (if the mission fails) take place in the past or the
future?  We see Ivanova screaming in the mysterious transmission that
"they're killing us" and that the Captain is dead, so I assume this
indicates that the possible fall of B5 takes place in the future since
Sheridan is the only Captain (Sinclair was a Commander, non?).  But we
also see Sinclair reliving his flashback with Gerabaldi from Season one in
which B5 falls, and he then seems to indicate that his mission is to
prevent such a catastrophe.  Since Sinclair is there, with Gerabaldi, this
would seem to suggest that the fall of B5, if the mission fails, takes
place in the past in relation to the present with which we are all
familiar.(Breath) So, if the mission fails, when will B5 fall; past of
future???  Or perhaps put another way:  Will B5 possibly fall under
Sheridan's command or Sinclair's?  <-- God, that's complicated. 

2) Faced with the end, why would the bloodied Ivanova feel compelled to
deliver a play-by-play to a non-existant audience?  Or even to one that is
there?  I found that strange. 

3) Too many comfortable circumstances:  Gerbaldi goes to investigate the
temperal area so he won't be there when Sinclair shows up; White Star
doesn't blow up the fusion bomb until it is close enough to knock out B4's
scanners to facilitate the White Star's undetected docking; we learn the
White Star is now basically immune to Shadow fighter fire because the
Vorlon skin has "learned"; Delenn's nifty slide show which explains
everything (I'm surprised Marcus didn't break out the popcorn). 

4) About Delenn's slide show:  It looks as though Minbari ships have
remained basically the same for the past 1000 years.  I could not see one
change.  Why is that? 

5) The preview showed Gerabaldi giving 'em hell with a big gun.  Why
wasn't that in the episode (I know, some scenes in previews don't show up
in the actual ep, but it seemed important)? 

6) Ivanova and Sinclair seemed to have almost nothing to say to
each other.  Why?

7) Londo spoils us all by telling us Sheridan wins the war--suspense exit
stage left--unless the time line is somehow further altered, which would
go against the inevatability theme JMS seems to be playing.

As far as I know those are the big ones.  Anyone else have any?  
Any thoughts?

-Tom

<Life's only certainty is death> Thus began the morbid years.

Email address: tmclean at chat.carleton.ca
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From: Louis-Dominique Dubeau <ldd at step.polymtl.ca>
Lines: 128

Tom McLean wrote:
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> 1) Assuming the present is the time period during which we watch Babylon 5
> and the period we saw at the beginning of the WWE episode, does the
> possible fall of B5 (if the mission fails) take place in the past or the
> future?  We see Ivanova screaming in the mysterious transmission that
> "they're killing us" and that the Captain is dead, so I assume this
> indicates that the possible fall of B5 takes place in the future since
> Sheridan is the only Captain (Sinclair was a Commander, non?).  But we
> also see Sinclair reliving his flashback with Gerabaldi from Season one in
> which B5 falls, and he then seems to indicate that his mission is to
> prevent such a catastrophe.  Since Sinclair is there, with Gerabaldi, this
> would seem to suggest that the fall of B5, if the mission fails, takes
> place in the past in relation to the present with which we are all
> familiar.(Breath) So, if the mission fails, when will B5 fall; past of
> future???  Or perhaps put another way:  Will B5 possibly fall under
> Sheridan's command or Sinclair's?  <-- God, that's complicated.

a) Under Sheridan's command.  Sinclair is on the station (probably to give
some help) when it happens.

b) Those flashforwards/unstuck in time scenes are just visions of what
_could_ happen.  Who knows what are the side effects of time travel?

> 2) Faced with the end, why would the bloodied Ivanova feel compelled to
> deliver a play-by-play to a non-existant audience?  Or even to one that is
> there?  I found that strange.

She has to send a message to tell what happens and why the station will blow
up.  Her intent is not to give a play-by-play but she's not a Vulcan so what
is going on around her is interfering with what she wants to say.

> 3) Too many comfortable circumstances:  Gerbaldi goes to investigate the
> temperal area so he won't be there when Sinclair shows up;

He's the only one with experience of this phenomenon.  It makes sense to
send him.

> White Star
> doesn't blow up the fusion bomb until it is close enough to knock out B4's
> scanners to facilitate the White Star's undetected docking; 

I think they could have used some kind of stealth mode.  Vorlon + Minbari
technology might go undetected.  However, they seemed in a hurry to dock
before the scanners are back online. 

> we learn the
> White Star is now basically immune to Shadow fighter fire because the
> Vorlon skin has "learned";

Well, it has been prepared for.  It's not like if they'd had just installed
a new feature on the ship just the day before.

> Delenn's nifty slide show which explains
> everything (I'm surprised Marcus didn't break out the popcorn).

Everything?  Gee, you're more perceptive than I am.  I'm still mostly in the
dark.  Again this has been prepared for.  Valen, the Grey Council, the last
war...  It would be another matter if this data just fell from the sky.

> 4) About Delenn's slide show:  It looks as though Minbari ships have
> remained basically the same for the past 1000 years.  I could not see one
> change.  Why is that?

The probably were quite badly hurt during the last war.  They might have
spent quite some time to heal their wounds.  Also, we haven't seen enough to
know exactly what has and hasn't changed.  The external design might be the
same but I doubt they didn't improve other things.

> 5) The preview showed Gerabaldi giving 'em hell with a big gun.  Why
> wasn't that in the episode (I know, some scenes in previews don't show up
> in the actual ep, but it seemed important)?

I don't remember the preview. :-(

> 6) Ivanova and Sinclair seemed to have almost nothing to say to
> each other.  Why?

It's not the right time for small talk.

> 7) Londo spoils us all by telling us Sheridan wins the war--suspense exit
> stage left--unless the time line is somehow further altered, which would
> go against the inevatability theme JMS seems to be playing.

I think this is only a possible future.

	Regards,
	ldd

-- Louis-Dominique Dubeau == Home page: http://step.polymtl.ca/~ldd/ --

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From: jmsatb5 at aol.com (Jms at B5)
Lines: 91

Spoiler space.....



















"1) Assuming the present is the time period during which we watch Babylon
5 and the period we saw at the beginning of the WWE episode, does the
possible fall of B5 (if the mission fails) take place in the past or the
future?  We see Ivanova screaming in the mysterious transmission that
"they're killing us" and that the Captain is dead, so I assume this
indicates that the possible fall of B5 takes place in the future since
Sheridan is the only Captain (Sinclair was a Commander, non?).  But we
also see Sinclair reliving his flashback with Gerabaldi from Season one in
which B5 falls, and he then seems to indicate that his mission is to
prevent such a catastrophe.  Since Sinclair is there, with Gerabaldi, this
would seem to suggest that the fall of B5, if the mission fails, takes
place in the past in relation to the present with which we are all
familiar.(Breath) So, if the mission fails, when will B5 fall; past of
future???  Or perhaps put another way:  Will B5 possibly fall under
Sheridan's command or Sinclair's?  <-- God, that's complicated."

Nope.  The scenes are all in the future.  Garibaldi specifically
identifies the distress call as coming from 8 days in the future. 
Sinclair's vision wasn't a flashback, but a flash forward; even the
blowing of B5 was identified by Lady Ladira as in the future.  It's
*always* been placed in the future, though most of this was in the first
season, which hasn't been reshown.  Also, in the first act, Garibaldi
again *specifically states* that when they went to B4, there was a glimpse
of the future and the fall of B5.  

"2) Faced with the end, why would the bloodied Ivanova feel compelled to
deliver a play-by-play to a non-existant audience?  Or even to one that is
there?  I found that strange."

First she was trying to get help.  Second, there should be some record of
what happened for those who would investigate.  They would need to know,
just the way a signal operator sends out a distress call for as long as
possible as the ship sinks.  SOP.

"4) About Delenn's slide show:  It looks as though Minbari ships have
remained basically the same for the past 1000 years.  I could not see one
change.  Why is that?"

Because you weren't looking closely enough.  The older Minbari ships are
much longer and tubular in design; you'll see them better in the second
half, but there's definitely a difference.

"5) The preview showed Gerabaldi giving 'em hell with a big gun.  Why
wasn't that in the episode (I know, some scenes in previews don't show up
in the actual ep, but it seemed important)?"

Because we were seeing the sequence from Sinclair's point of view; he was
gone by the time Garibaldi began firing, so he wouldn't have seen it. 
Story logic.

"7) Londo spoils us all by telling us Sheridan wins the war--suspense exit
stage left--unless the time line is somehow further altered, which would
go against the inevatability theme JMS seems to be playing."

Okay, everybody who thought I was going to have our heroes fight a war for
two whole years or so, and then *lose it*...a major dramatic
disappointment to say the least...raise your hands.

In any event...quite frankly, several of your "serious nitpicks" are
actually incorrect, and come from making assumptions or simply not paying
attention when someone says something clearly in dialogue, as Garibaldi
does, that the flash was of future events, and then IDs the signal as from
8 days ahead.  






 jms

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